the great vegetarian debate

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Re: Low carb vegan diet?

Postby Johnny Dangerous » Fri Sep 20, 2013 3:13 am

Yep, lowering carbs is about the first thing any doctor - including the naturopath that is my primary - recommend for metabolic syndrome, high cholesterol, what have you, because it works., and often works very quickly. However, the advice I got was low carb, lots of fresh vegetables, some cooked ones, and some meat. Obviously eating mostly meat is not good for you, in a variety of ways.

There is no question that Americans especially eat way too many carbs for their lifestyles though, that is not really in dispute at all.
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is not born in the hearts of disciples in whom the moisture of attachment has dried up. It grows instead in the hearts of ordinary sentient beings who possess in full the fetters of bondage." -Se Chilbu Choki Gyaltsen
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Re: Low carb vegan diet?

Postby padma norbu » Fri Sep 20, 2013 4:36 am

Johnny Dangerous wrote:Yep, lowering carbs is about the first thing any doctor - including the naturopath that is my primary - recommend for metabolic syndrome, high cholesterol, what have you, because it works., and often works very quickly. However, the advice I got was low carb, lots of fresh vegetables, some cooked ones, and some meat. Obviously eating mostly meat is not good for you, in a variety of ways.

There is no question that Americans especially eat way too many carbs for their lifestyles though, that is not really in dispute at all.


Exactly, that is definitely the best diet. Anyone who tries it will feel very good within a week.
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Re: Low carb vegan diet?

Postby Dan Dorje » Fri Sep 20, 2013 1:31 pm

Johnny Dangerous wrote:Obviously eating mostly meat is not good for you, in a variety of ways.

Well, this is the exactly principle of a real low-carb diet.
That is beacause meat contains 0% carbs and you can eat meat as much as you want (including high fat).
Eating a lot of vegetables is not low-carb diet, because vegetables contains carbs, therefore one can eat only small quantities, otherwise will exit ketosis.

There are different opinions about this diet, but most of doctors will tell you that this in not very healthy.
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Re: Low carb vegan diet?

Postby padma norbu » Fri Sep 20, 2013 4:09 pm

Dan Dorje wrote:
Johnny Dangerous wrote:Obviously eating mostly meat is not good for you, in a variety of ways.

Well, this is the exactly principle of a real low-carb diet.
That is beacause meat contains 0% carbs and you can eat meat as much as you want (including high fat).
Eating a lot of vegetables is not low-carb diet, because vegetables contains carbs, therefore one can eat only small quantities, otherwise will exit ketosis.


Incorrect. Every low-carb diet I am aware of and have used specifically includes LOTS of vegetables. You simply avoid a few starchy vegetables like potatoes. If you have one specifically in mind which is different, please name it and we can all go see if your description of it is accurate.

A general list: http://lowcarbdiets.about.com/od/whatto ... hatveg.htm

Every low-carb diet I have followed specifically says to eat a ton of vegetables, as much as you want, really.
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Re: Low carb vegan diet?

Postby Dan Dorje » Fri Sep 20, 2013 6:39 pm

padma norbu wrote:Incorrect. Every low-carb diet I am aware of and have used specifically includes LOTS of vegetables. You simply avoid a few starchy vegetables like potatoes. If you have one specifically in mind which is different, please name it and we can all go see if your description of it is accurate.

A general list: http://lowcarbdiets.about.com/od/whatto ... hatveg.htm

Every low-carb diet I have followed specifically says to eat a ton of vegetables, as much as you want, really.


According with my knowledge, for example, in Atkins diet (which is the father of all low carb diets), it is allowed less than 20 g carbs/day.
15 g carbs/day is an usual value.
This means 300 g cabbage (5% carbs).
Yes, there are vegetables with 1% carbs. They also have 2% calories. :)

So yes, one can eat vegetables (within carbs ratio, not a ton), but without a lot of meat (mostly meat), this diet will lead to very low calories level, therefore impossible to keep while having a normal life.
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Re: Low carb vegan diet?

Postby padma norbu » Fri Sep 20, 2013 7:37 pm

Dan Dorje wrote:
padma norbu wrote:Incorrect. Every low-carb diet I am aware of and have used specifically includes LOTS of vegetables. You simply avoid a few starchy vegetables like potatoes. If you have one specifically in mind which is different, please name it and we can all go see if your description of it is accurate.

A general list: http://lowcarbdiets.about.com/od/whatto ... hatveg.htm

Every low-carb diet I have followed specifically says to eat a ton of vegetables, as much as you want, really.


According with my knowledge, for example, in Atkins diet (which is the father of all low carb diets), it is allowed less than 20 g carbs/day.
15 g carbs/day is an usual value.
This means 300 g cabbage (5% carbs).
Yes, there are vegetables with 1% carbs. They also have 2% calories. :)

So yes, one can eat vegetables (within carbs ratio, not a ton), but without a lot of meat (mostly meat), this diet will lead to very low calories level, therefore impossible to keep while having a normal life.


So, "according to your knowledge" was the correct wording because your knowledge is incorrect. You are quoting from the first 2 week induction phase, which is a very Atkins-specific thing, anyway:
http://www.atkins.com/Program/Phase-1/H ... bles-.aspx

After Phase 1, you eat more vegetables than that. Don't forget to delete fiber from the overall carb value, too, which, as I said, pretty much means you eat as much vegetables as you want.

But, the fact that you have just quoted from the Atkins induction phase without realizing it does not apply to Phase 2 and onward (or the rest of the low-carb diets for that matter) pretty much shows you don't know much about the topic of low-carb dieting. So, will you now admit this?
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Re: Low carb vegan diet?

Postby Luke » Fri Sep 20, 2013 9:01 pm

David N. Snyder wrote:
Alix1112 wrote:Does anyone else have any other suggestions? Or anything to add about going low carb vegan?


Nuts! Peanuts, pistachios, cashews, etc. are tasty, filling. But be careful not to eat too many; it is about one of the only ways a vegan could get fat.

While nuts are good sources of protein, they aren't anywhere near being a low-carb food!

Look at this: 100 g of peanuts contains 21g of carbs!
http://www.calorieking.com/foods/calori ... TcwNw.html

That's almost as much carbs as are in 100g of brown rice! lol
http://www.calorieking.com/foods/calori ... zcyMQ.html

"Low carb vegan" is usually a contradiction in terms. The only truly low-carb vegan protein sources I know of are seitan and tofu. The only other thing I can think of would be some type of vegan protein powder (if there is such a thing) which you could mix with water. But even if there is a vegan protein powder, the odds are that it won't be low carb.

The only truly low-carb vegan diet I can think would be mostly lots of vegetables and lots of seitan and tofu.
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Re: Low carb vegan diet?

Postby dzogchungpa » Fri Sep 20, 2013 9:42 pm

Luke wrote:Look at this: 100 g of peanuts contains 21g of carbs!

I believe that peanuts are technically considered legumes, not nuts.
ཨོཾ་མ་ཧཱ་ཤུནྱ་ཏཱ་ཛྙཱ་ན་བཛྲ་སྭཱ་བྷཱ་བ་ཨཱཏྨ་ཀོ་྅ཧཾ༔

The thousands of lines of the Prajnaparamita can be summed up in the following two sentences:
1) One should become a Bodhisattva (or, Buddha-to-be), i.e. one who is content with nothing less than all-knowledge attained through the perfection of wisdom for the sake of all beings.
2) There is no such thing as a Bodhisattva, or as all-knowledge, or as a ‘being’, or as the perfection of wisdom, or as an attainment.
To accept both these contradictory facts is to be perfect.
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Re: Low carb vegan diet?

Postby Johnny Dangerous » Fri Sep 20, 2013 10:57 pm

Dan Dorje wrote:
Johnny Dangerous wrote:Obviously eating mostly meat is not good for you, in a variety of ways.

Well, this is the exactly principle of a real low-carb diet.
That is beacause meat contains 0% carbs and you can eat meat as much as you want (including high fat).
Eating a lot of vegetables is not low-carb diet, because vegetables contains carbs, therefore one can eat only small quantities, otherwise will exit ketosis.

There are different opinions about this diet, but most of doctors will tell you that this in not very healthy.


Yeah, this is simply incorrect, Perhaps by "low carb diet" you are limiting yourself to mean fad-diets and "branded" diets with high concentrations of meat-based protein..but those aren't the only low carb diets out there, nor are they the same low carb diets that plenty of doctors recommend.
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is not born in the hearts of disciples in whom the moisture of attachment has dried up. It grows instead in the hearts of ordinary sentient beings who possess in full the fetters of bondage." -Se Chilbu Choki Gyaltsen
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Re: Low carb vegan diet?

Postby Qing Tian » Fri Sep 20, 2013 11:24 pm

Worth noting: not all carbs are equal.
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Re: Low carb vegan diet?

Postby Nemo » Sat Sep 21, 2013 1:44 am

Also worth noting that the spare tire pudgy guys had the most stamina in battle endurance tests in the Army. The results were not at all what we wanted so we binned the results. No need to tell the troops that they need more pudge. Women's fertility drops precipitously once they go below 20% body fat. Humans seem to be healthiest with an active lifestyle and some juicy love handles.

Bodybuilders are glass cannons. They often get injured and most avoid physical labour they are so prone to injury. Very few body builders use HGH. It makes them look thick, not cut. Athletes on the other hand use it to speed healing of connective tissue and cartilage. It works very slowly though and probably wouldn't much help till you were at least 35. Many people don't need steroids. Some of course can work their hearts out for 6 months and look almost exactly the same. Everyone is different. Protein is necessary to grow muscle. One gram of protein per pound per day is ideal if you work out intensely. It is one of the most important parts of any training regimen. Before steroids were discovered the largest bodybuilders arms were17.5 inches. Generally most use that as a guide to whether or not someone is juicing. 19 inches = juice. 44 year old Jackman is in much better shape than 31 year old Jackman. He is probably taking bio-identical testosterone supplementation.

Personally paleo works best for me. If I cut meat I need at least a gram of carnitine a day to keep from getting major carb cravings. I've done the ketosis thing out of curiosity. Running your brain on acetone fascinated me. It was great to burn off 10 pounds of Christmas cheer but after that I hit a wall and got very grouchy. You can buy the ketone test strips for 3$. If you do it right you can pee on the strips and they will change colour. Eventually even your poops smell like nail polish. I don't think I would bother to do it again.
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Re: Low carb vegan diet?

Postby padma norbu » Sat Sep 21, 2013 4:41 pm

Nemo, that's interesting because a lot of vegan athletes are extremely low-fat and advocate an extremely low-fat diet and claim this is the key to success in endurance marathons. Durianriders on Youtube (the 30 bananas a day guy) is a great example of this. Personally, when I am 15 pounds overweight, I have no energy. That is because the only way I get overweight is by adding carbs and sugar to my diet which my body reacts to as if it were poison. I get eczema, pimples, thinner hair, digestion problems, allergies & colds, but the worst is brain fog and lethargy. It is hard to get anything done and hard to get motivated to exercise. Fortunately enough, I accidentally discovered that eliminated starchy carbs and sugar from my diet automatically begins to right my ship and within a couple days I have energy to exercise and ability to stay awake and concentrate.
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Re: Low carb vegan diet?

Postby Luke » Sat Sep 21, 2013 5:50 pm

padma norbu wrote:Nemo, that's interesting because a lot of vegan athletes are extremely low-fat and advocate an extremely low-fat diet and claim this is the key to success in endurance marathons. Durianriders on Youtube (the 30 bananas a day guy) is a great example of this.

Low-fat implies high-carb. The most important nutrient for endurance is complex carbs, so endurance athletes eat tons of them. Sure, you can get lean eating tons of carbs if you do 2 to 3 hours a day of intense endurance exercise to burn up all the calories.

I once read that Olympic gold medallist swimmer Michael Phelps often ate pizza and pancakes--but he trained for 6 hours a day 6 days a week! It's pretty meaningless to compare the diets of elite athletes to the diets of normal people. Each group has very different nutritional needs.

padma norbu wrote:Personally, when I am 15 pounds overweight, I have no energy. That is because the only way I get overweight is by adding carbs and sugar to my diet which my body reacts to as if it were poison. I get eczema, pimples, thinner hair, digestion problems, allergies & colds, but the worst is brain fog and lethargy. It is hard to get anything done and hard to get motivated to exercise. Fortunately enough, I accidentally discovered that eliminated starchy carbs and sugar from my diet automatically begins to right my ship and within a couple days I have energy to exercise and ability to stay awake and concentrate.

That's interesting. That sounds like insulin resistance, plus maybe some other stuff.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insulin_resistance
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Re: Low carb vegan diet?

Postby Luke » Sat Sep 21, 2013 6:16 pm

dzogchungpa wrote:
Luke wrote:Look at this: 100 g of peanuts contains 21g of carbs!

I believe that peanuts are technically considered legumes, not nuts.

Why does that matter? It doesn't matter what they're called. They still contain quite a bit of carbs.

Vegetarians may see the word "legumes" as some sort of magic synonym for "protein," but along with the protein in legumes, they also contain quite a bit of carbs, too. Egg whites they ain't... lol And this is why it's very difficult to eat a low-carb vegetarian diet.

Qing Tian wrote:Worth noting: not all carbs are equal.

Yes, very true. The glycemic index of carbs is important.

Not only that, but WHEN you eat carbs is also important. The best time to eat carbs is right after your workout because your body uses up the energy from carbs much more quickly at this time (especially if you lifted weights). It's also good to eat the majority of your carbs (except for after your workout) earlier in the day and to eat less or no carbs at night.

Shakyamuni Buddha certainly had it right: He ate his carbs post-workout (after his alms round) and didn't eat carbs at night! :twothumbsup:
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Re: Low carb vegan diet?

Postby padma norbu » Sat Sep 21, 2013 6:30 pm

Luke wrote:That's interesting. That sounds like insulin resistance, plus maybe some other stuff.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insulin_resistance


I had thorough blood work done and saw several doctors. I was healthy with no such problems or even food allergies. I cured myself of multiple problems by eating the exact opposite of how I was told was healthy since childhood. So, when people try to sell me on diets that made me very unhealthy, I don't easily accept it. These are just people parroting what they've been told. Anyone who looks into the science will see that grains, carbs and sugar are the underlying causes of pretty much all our illness epidemics which not coincidentally coincided with the 70s notion of a low-fat diet full of "healthy grains." This food pyramid is seriously out of whack:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... yramid.gif
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Re: Low carb vegan diet?

Postby padma norbu » Sat Sep 21, 2013 6:34 pm

Luke wrote:Shakyamuni Buddha certainly had it right: He ate his carbs post-workout (after his alms round) and didn't eat carbs at night! :twothumbsup:

Yep, if you're going to splurge on carbs, best to do it after a workout. A lot of people think jamming your body full of protein is essential after a workout, but carbs/glucose actually speeds recovery. As mentioned on earlier pages, cycling protein extremely low for a while actually builds muscle faster and bigger... because protein isn't the most important thing at all for huge gains. Definitely important, but not the way typically thought.
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Re: Low carb vegan diet?

Postby Nemo » Sat Sep 21, 2013 11:09 pm

padma norbu wrote:Nemo, that's interesting because a lot of vegan athletes are extremely low-fat and advocate an extremely low-fat diet and claim this is the key to success in endurance marathons. Durianriders on Youtube (the 30 bananas a day guy) is a great example of this. Personally, when I am 15 pounds overweight, I have no energy. That is because the only way I get overweight is by adding carbs and sugar to my diet which my body reacts to as if it were poison. I get eczema, pimples, thinner hair, digestion problems, allergies & colds, but the worst is brain fog and lethargy. It is hard to get anything done and hard to get motivated to exercise. Fortunately enough, I accidentally discovered that eliminated starchy carbs and sugar from my diet automatically begins to right my ship and within a couple days I have energy to exercise and ability to stay awake and concentrate.


A glass cannon who is good at one sport or only on a very exclusive diet is no longer my ideal of fitness. Many of the best athletes in barracks shut down after two or three days in theatre. Bizarre diets and a lack of body fat are only useful under the softest conditions. Obviously we didn't expect the pudge balls to outlast the ripped individuals under simulated battle stress. We were looking for an excuse to flog the soldiers into trimming down. That the results were contrary to our expectations and wishes made some of us rethink our preconceptions about fitness. The soldiers who occasionally ate the wrong foods and were slightly overweight handled stress much better. This translated to actual battle conditions of extreme stress and poor quality food. All in the cohort were very healthy and extremely physically fit. Personally I lose my endurance at ≈18% body fat.

I discovered that much of what we consider fitness is actually aesthetics. Being an attractive glass cannon has many social benefits but not as many health ones as my preconceptions led me to believe.
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Re: Low carb vegan diet?

Postby Thrasymachus » Sun Sep 22, 2013 12:46 am

This is the most laughs I have had in a long-time. I must thank the meat addicted, low-carbers for this, but I am concerned that all the excess cholesterol has created too much plaque in their brains and that may explain all their outlandish claims.
Image

I have noticed that they have all have become anecdotal nancies to support their claims. But if one reads between the lines, they can find the truth:
padma norbu wrote:... Until you have tried both kinds of diets yourself for a number of years, you are just parroting what you've heard which appeals to you most. I have personally lived the difference between vegan, vegetarian, low-fat (all for several years) versus a low-carb/high fat vegan, vegetarian and paleo diets for the last 5 years. My findings confirm the science ...


So you listed six diets that you allegedly tried and assert that this means you have "findings" like you made a rigorous peer reviewed study that confirmed the "science"! You are very good at the famous paleo bro-science, I must say, to have studied six different diets. Someone who yo-yos between six diets and is likely overweight after each iteration anyway, is just desperate and searching for the easy route. There is no shorctut: lower calorie density, whole plant foods(Ex: a few olives, not slathers of tablespoons of empty calorie[no nutritional value), high fat olive oil on everything) and integrate exercise into your daily life. Everything is else bs and a fad. You can restrict calories which is what most low-carbers do anyway if they actually ever lose weight:
Atkins Diet Alert wrote:Health Advisory

A review of 107 research studies on various low-carbohydrate, high-protein weight-loss diets concluded that weight loss on these diets is not due to any special effect of restricting carbohydrate; rather, weight loss depended on the extent to which the dieters’ caloric intake fell and how long they continued with their regimens.10 Other reports have also found calorie reduction to be the most important factor in weight loss, with no special weight-loss advantage from the restriction of carbohydrates.11,12

10. Bravata DM, Sanders L, Huang J, et al. Efficacy and safety of low-carbohydrate diets: a systematic review. JAMA 2003;289:1837-1850.
11. Kennedy ET, Bowman SA, Spence JT, Freedman M, King J. Popular diets: correlation to health, nutrition, and obesity. J Am Diet Assoc. 2001;101:411-20.
12. Brehm BJ, Seeley RJ, Daniels SR, D’Alessio DA. A randomized trial comparing a very low carbohydrate diet and a calorie-restricted low fat diet on body weight and cardiovascular risk factors in healthy women. J Clin Endocrinol Metab 2003;88:1617-1623.

But no one can maintain eating as much calories as a little kid while being an adult forever, or deal with all the sickness that the dangerous diet which you recommend entails:
Atkins Diet Alert wrote:Health Advisory

Other adverse effects. The following adverse effects were noted in a six-month study of a low-carbohydrate diet, in addition to the effects on cholesterol levels noted above:23

Constipation 68%
Headache 60%
Bad breath 38%
Muscle cramps 35%
Diarrhea 23%
General weakness 25%

23. Nestel PJ, Shige H, Pomeroy S, Cehun M, Chin-Dusting J. Post-prandial remnant lipids impair arterial compliance. J Am Coll Cardiol 2001;37:1929-35.


Nemo wrote:Also worth noting that the spare tire pudgy guys had the most stamina in battle endurance tests in the Army. The results were not at all what we wanted so we binned the results. No need to tell the troops that they need more pudge. ... Humans seem to be healthiest with an active lifestyle and some juicy love handles.


More amazing bro-science! Where is this study you likely made up. Can you give a source? Having a spare tire around your waist and a spare tire are sort of oxy-morons(but in this meat addicted society where many people only consume overly processed white bread, ketchup, and unhealthy fried potatoes called french fries as sides or garnishes to meat, almost no amount of exercise will get certain people into a healthy body mass index). Obviously you are hilariously trying to rationalize being overweight and make it seem healthy when it increases the risk for every type of chronic disease and even outdo yourself by adding advocacy for the fad low carb-diets that are well known to be extremely unhealthy. Being overweight increases all cause mortality.

This is perhaps the funniest of them all:
Johnny Dangerous wrote:Yep, lowering carbs is about the first thing any doctor - including the naturopath that is my primary - recommend for metabolic syndrome, high cholesterol, what have you, because it works., and often works very quickly. ... Obviously eating mostly meat is not good for you, in a variety of ways.


Low carb is what will higher cholesterol, since you are pushing out whole plant foods that don't contain cholesterol because of stupid carb phobia and replacing them with animal products that do contain cholesterol. So if eating mostly meat is not good for you, why would you even promote low-carb, when that is what it entails, eating mostly animal products that are low-carb and dangerously high in protein and fat? To further that you don't what you are talking about, every authority rails against low-carb, because it is a public health danger and irresponsible to advocate for:
Atkins exposed wrote:Atkins "Nightmare" Diet

When Dr. Atkins Diet Revolution was first published, the President of the American College of Nutrition said, "Of all the bizarre diets that have been proposed in the last 50 years, this is the most dangerous to the public if followed for any length of time."[1]

When the chief health officer for the State of Maryland,[2] was asked "What's wrong with the Atkins Diet?" He replied "What's wrong with... taking an overdose of sleeping pills? You are placing your body in jeopardy." He continued "Although you can lose weight on these nutritionally unsound diets, you do so at the risk of your health and even your life."[3]

The Chair of Harvard's nutrition department went on record before a 1973 U.S. Senate Select Committee investigating fad diets: "The Atkins Diet is nonsense... Any book that recommends unlimited amounts of meat, butter, and eggs, as this one does, in my opinion is dangerous. The author who makes the suggestion is guilty of malpractice."[4]

The Chair of the American Medical Association's Council on Food and Nutrition testified before the Senate Subcommittee as to why the AMA felt they had to formally publish an official condemnation of the Atkins Diet: "A careful scientific appraisal was carried out by several council and staff members, aided by outside consultants. It became apparent that the [Atkins] diet as recommended poses a serious threat to health."[5]

The warnings from medical authorities continue to this day. "People need to wake up to the reality," former U.S. Surgeon General C. Everett Koop writes, that the Atkins Diet is "unhealthy and can be dangerous."[6]

The world's largest organization of food and nutrition professionals,[7] calls the Atkins Diet "a nightmare of a diet."[8] The official spokesperson of the American Dietetic Association elaborated: "The Atkins Diet and its ilk--any eating regimen that encourages gorging on bacon, cream and butter while shunning apples, all in the name of weight loss--are a dietitian's nightmare."[9] The ADA has been warning Americans about the potential hazards of the Atkins Diet for almost 30 years now.[10] Atkins dismissed such criticism as "dietician talk".[11] "My English sheepdog," Atkins once said, "will figure out nutrition before the dieticians do."[12]

The problem for Atkins (and his sheepdog), though, is that the National Academy of Sciences, the most prestigious scientific body in the United States, agrees with the AMA and the ADA in opposing the Atkins Diet.[13] So does the American Cancer Society;[14] and the American Heart Association;[15] and the Cleveland Clinic;[16] and Johns Hopkins;[17] and the American Kidney Fund;[18] and the American College of Sports Medicine;[19] and the National Institutes of Health.[20]

In fact there does not seem to be a single major governmental or nonprofit medical, nutrition, or science-based organization in the world that supports the Atkins Diet.[21] As a 2004 medical journal review concluded, the Atkins Diet "runs counter to all the current evidence-based dietary recommendations."[22]

A 2003 review of Atkins "theories" in the Journal of the American College of Nutrition concluded: "When properly evaluated, the theories and arguments of popular low carbohydrate diet books... rely on poorly controlled, non-peer-reviewed studies, anecdotes and non-science rhetoric.
This review illustrates the complexity of nutrition misinformation perpetrated by some popular press diet books. A closer look at the science behind the claims made for [these books] reveals nothing more than a modern twist on an antique food fad."[23]


I hope you low-carbers find the truth so you can start doing something about your built-up brain plaque and hopefully avoid Alzheimers and the other myriad of downsides of meat addiction and carb phobia(which is a fear of plant foods).
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Re: Low carb vegan diet?

Postby Nemo » Sun Sep 22, 2013 1:25 am

Thrasymachus wrote:
Nemo wrote:Also worth noting that the spare tire pudgy guys had the most stamina in battle endurance tests in the Army. The results were not at all what we wanted so we binned the results. No need to tell the troops that they need more pudge. ... Humans seem to be healthiest with an active lifestyle and some juicy love handles.


More amazing bro-science! Where is this study you likely made up. Can you give a source? Having a spare tire around your waist and a spare tire are sort of oxy-morons(but in this meat addicted society where many people only consume overly processed white bread, ketchup, and unhealthy fried potatoes called french fries as sides or garnishes to meat, almost no amount of exercise will get certain people into a healthy body mass index). Obviously you are hilariously trying to rationalize being overweight and make it seem healthy when it increases the risk for every type of chronic disease and even outdo yourself by adding advocacy for the fad low carb-diets that are well known to be extremely unhealthy. [url=http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/05/opinion/the-link-between-weight-and-health.html?ref=todayspaper&_r=2&amp&]Being overweight increases all cause mortality.


The lessons learned from these studies turned into the Battle Fitness Test. It was a strange cohort as you had "overweight" people who were also very physically fit competing against the ripped ultra low body fat individuals. I have no idea how they will fare 20 years later.
http://www.cg.cfpsa.ca/cg-pc/Shilo/EN/F ... fault.aspx
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Re: Low carb vegan diet?

Postby padma norbu » Sun Sep 22, 2013 2:43 am

Thrasymachus wrote:This is the most laughs I have had in a long-time.


It's too bad you put your ego first over other peoples' health.

All the open-minded people in this thread: please continue to do research on the topic. The low-budget Netflix streaming doc "Fat Head" actually addresses, for the most part, the ideas I have presented here, but it is not a great presentation. I don't expect it will be utterly convincing since (A) it is low-budget, (B) it goes against everything you've ever heard, (C) the star of the film isn't particularly fit (he's not trying to be, though).

The solution, then, is to throw down and experiment with your own body. I have. It's obvious Thrasymachus has not. It's also obvious he doesn't know what he's talking about. And he uses psychological argumentation tactics as opposed to facts, so I am responding in kind. And unless his avatar is old, I think he's a typical 20-something kid. I wonder if a scan of my blood tests would shut him up. Somehow I doubt it. 20-something year old kids can't be schooled.

Actually, here's a link to watch Fat Head free online:

http://www.hulu.com/watch/196879

But, please, tell me more about "bro science," extremely mature and respectable Thrasymachus.
Last edited by padma norbu on Sun Sep 22, 2013 2:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
"Use what seems like poison as medicine. We can use our personal suffering as the path to compassion for all beings." Pema Chodron
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