Dharma Wheel

A Buddhist discussion forum on Mahayana and Vajrayana Buddhism
It is currently Mon Dec 22, 2014 8:39 pm

All times are UTC [ DST ]


Forum rules


Please click here to view the forum rules



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 34 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

Should Buddhists give money to Hare Krishnas?
Yes, often 18%  18%  [ 3 ]
Yes, but rarely 29%  29%  [ 5 ]
No, never 53%  53%  [ 9 ]
Total votes : 17
Author Message
PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2013 2:40 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 06, 2009 9:04 pm
Posts: 1727
I would like to know if you think it's okay to give money to Hare Krishnas.

I know that the Hare Krishnas had some serious scandals in the past, but I'm not sure if this makes giving small donations to the group now unethical.
Is their organization still prone to such grave abuses and untrustworthy, or have they fixed things? Your opinions?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2013 6:41 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Sep 10, 2013 9:50 pm
Posts: 1358
i did not vote but the hare krishna community is corrupt to its roots. but nothing wrong with the people.

_________________
If the thought of demons
Never rises in your mind,
You need not fear the demon hosts around you.
It is most important to tame your mind within....

In so far as the Ultimate, or the true nature of being is concerned,
there are neither buddhas or demons.
He who frees himself from fear and hope, evil and virtue,
will realize the insubstantial and groundless nature of confusion.
Samsara will then appear as the mahamudra itself….

-Milarepa

OMMANIPADMEHUNG

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ls6P9tOYmdo


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2013 7:44 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed May 30, 2012 8:28 am
Posts: 2327
Location: the Netherlands and India
Hare Krishnas have many different projects. If it is something like food for life, which feeds healthy vegetarian food to starving people, why not?

_________________
In order to ensure my mind never comes under the power of the self-cherishing attitude,
I must obtain control over my own mind.
Therefore, amongst all empowerments, the empowerment that gives me control over my mind is the best,
and I have received the most profound empowerment with this teaching.
-Atisha Dipamkara
brtsal ba'i bkhra drin


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2013 10:28 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2013 3:38 am
Posts: 556
no


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2013 12:34 am 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2009 4:23 pm
Posts: 2107
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada
I didn't vote, but I would say no as the question is worded. "Should" is kind of strong. If it was worded, "is it okay for Buddhist to give to Hare Krishnas" then I would say yes.

However, in general I am sure most of us don't have millions to budget for charitable contributions and since our budgets are limited, why not give to organizations in need from your own religion or your other favorite causes (non-religious)?

_________________
Image
www.TheDhamma.com/
Dhamma Wiki encyclopedia
Dhamma Wheel forum


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2013 1:40 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2011 10:35 pm
Posts: 972
Luke wrote:
I would like to know if you think it's okay to give money to Hare Krishnas.

I know that the Hare Krishnas had some serious scandals in the past, but I'm not sure if this makes giving small donations to the group now unethical.
Is their organization still prone to such grave abuses and untrustworthy, or have they fixed things? Your opinions?


Pear pimples for hairy fishnuts?

Image

_________________
"As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly."
~Arthur Carlson


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2013 2:09 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2011 4:30 am
Posts: 1355
If the money promotes HIndu practices, then it breaks your refuge vows. If the money is for food for the poor or some such, it's virtuous.

Also, I haven't heard anything bad about them recently.

_________________
Equanimity is the ground. Love is the moisture. Compassion is the seed. Bodhicitta is the result.

-Paraphrase of Khensur Rinpoche Lobsang Tsephel citing the Guhyasamaja Tantra

"All memories and thoughts are the union of emptiness and knowing, the Mind.
Without attachment, self-liberating, like a snake in a knot.
Through the qualities of meditating in that way,
Mental obscurations are purified and the dharmakaya is attained."

-Ra Lotsawa, All-pervading Melodious Drumbeats


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2013 3:10 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 12, 2010 3:19 pm
Posts: 5986
Location: Taiwan
I support them when in Delhi by visiting their gourmet vegetarian buffet which costs 350 rupees per head. It is clean as a hospital and delicious. :anjali:

_________________
Flower Ornament Depository (Blog) Indrajāla's Contemplations (Blog) Exploring Classical Chinese (Blog) Dharma Depository (Site)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2013 4:19 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2012 9:06 pm
Posts: 952
Quote:
I would like to know if you think it's okay to give


It is always OK to give.
In fact you could give them the opportunity to make a donation to the dharma . . . . :woohoo:

_________________
YinYana Buddhism


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2013 5:18 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 06, 2009 9:04 pm
Posts: 1727
KonchokZoepa wrote:
i did not vote but the hare krishna community is corrupt to its roots. but nothing wrong with the people.

My own paranoia predisposes me to agree with you, but do you have any real proof that the Hare Krishna organization is still corrupt?

JKhedrup wrote:
Hare Krishnas have many different projects. If it is something like food for life, which feeds healthy vegetarian food to starving people, why not?

Yes, this was also my feeling. But it also bothers me that I have never actually observed any of the Hare Krishnas charitable projects. I don't think I will give them any more donations until I have actually observed their charitable activities. I think this is reasonable.

David N. Snyder wrote:
However, in general I am sure most of us don't have millions to budget for charitable contributions and since our budgets are limited, why not give to organizations in need from your own religion or your other favorite causes (non-religious)?

Yes, you make a very good point! The only reason I brought up this issue is because I was surprised by a Hare Krishna on the street the other day. I gave him a small amount of money (about 4 USD), but I hadn't really taken the time to think deeply about the ethics of the situation before.

Konchog1 wrote:
If the money promotes HIndu practices, then it breaks your refuge vows.

Ah, very interesting! This is the kind of information I was looking for!

How does this balance against the second Bodhisattva Vow to share with others one's wealth and Dharma?

"2. not sharing with others one’s wealth and Dharma
It is quite clear that sharing our possessions, knowledge and understanding is crucial. If we don’t share our own possessions and Dharma understanding with sentient beings who need it, we are breaking the second root downfall. I particularly think sharing Dharma knowledge is very, very important, although by that I don’t necessarily mean traditional teachings. Giving good advice in a conversation is also sharing your Dharma knowledge."

http://www.bodhicitta.net/BODHISATTVAVOWS.htm

But the way the vow is worded above, it seems like it is only important to give money to those people who really NEED it. A westerner who seems clean, well-fed and content who is a part of a large international organization is in a different category I think. I guess the other question is whether the people whom the Hare Krishnas help are truly in need of their charity or not, and this is a question I can't answer because I don't have much knowledge about their activities.

Konchog1 wrote:
If the money is for food for the poor or some such, it's virtuous.

Yes, here they always talk about their program to give vegetarian food to the poor, but I have never seen it in action.

Indrajala wrote:
I support them when in Delhi by visiting their gourmet vegetarian buffet which costs 350 rupees per head. It is clean as a hospital and delicious. :anjali:

I once went to one of their vegetarian restaurants in Budapest. The food wasn't so good and the chant music was annoyingly loud! lol Indians probably are more talented at cooking this type of food.

lobster wrote:
It is always OK to give.
In fact you could give them the opportunity to make a donation to the dharma . . . . :woohoo:

True, but I think one has to be careful about the consequences. If I gave them the contact info for a Buddhist group, then they might just start fundraising outside of there and annoying everyone in that location, too! On the other hand, that still might bring them in contact with the dharma. It's quite a dilemma...

But after considering the many points of view which you all expressed, I think my best course of action is to simply avoid Hare Krishnas in the future.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2013 5:39 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2011 10:35 pm
Posts: 972
You don't break your refuge vow by giving to a Hindu organization, don't be silly. The vow is not to take refuge in worldly gods, having taken refuge in the Buddha.

_________________
"As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly."
~Arthur Carlson


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2013 5:48 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2011 4:30 am
Posts: 1355
Luke wrote:
Konchog1 wrote:
If the money promotes HIndu practices, then it breaks your refuge vows.

Ah, very interesting! This is the kind of information I was looking for!

How does this balance against the second Bodhisattva Vow to share with others one's wealth and Dharma?

"2. not sharing with others one’s wealth and Dharma
It is quite clear that sharing our possessions, knowledge and understanding is crucial. If we don’t share our own possessions and Dharma understanding with sentient beings who need it, we are breaking the second root downfall. I particularly think sharing Dharma knowledge is very, very important, although by that I don’t necessarily mean traditional teachings. Giving good advice in a conversation is also sharing your Dharma knowledge."

http://www.bodhicitta.net/BODHISATTVAVOWS.htm

But the way the vow is worded above, it seems like it is only important to give money to those people who really NEED it. A westerner who seems clean, well-fed and content who is a part of a large international organization is in a different category I think. I guess the other question is whether the people whom the Hare Krishnas help are truly in need of their charity or not, and this is a question I can't answer because I don't have much knowledge about their activities.
Well, I guess it's the same kind of situation where someone asks you for a gun. You can't be miserly, but you can't give harmful gifts. So if you don't give out of a motivation better than miserliness than it's fine.

_________________
Equanimity is the ground. Love is the moisture. Compassion is the seed. Bodhicitta is the result.

-Paraphrase of Khensur Rinpoche Lobsang Tsephel citing the Guhyasamaja Tantra

"All memories and thoughts are the union of emptiness and knowing, the Mind.
Without attachment, self-liberating, like a snake in a knot.
Through the qualities of meditating in that way,
Mental obscurations are purified and the dharmakaya is attained."

-Ra Lotsawa, All-pervading Melodious Drumbeats


Last edited by Konchog1 on Sat Sep 21, 2013 6:19 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2013 5:56 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Feb 25, 2010 10:41 am
Posts: 2776
Quote:
http://www.dhammaweb.net/Tipitaka/read.php?id=90
‘Householder since long your clan has been a welling spring to the Nigantas. I think morsel food should be offered to those that come.’
‘Venerable sir, I am very much pleased with these words of the Blessed One.

Householder, since long your clan has been a welling spring to the Nigantas. I think morsel food should be offered to them that come’.
‘Venerable sir, I have heard this said about you. Offerings should be given to me only, not to others.
Offerings should be, to my disciples not to the disciples of other sects.
Offerings made to my disciples are of great fruit, but not the offerings made to others.

Here, the Blessed One advises me to make offerings to the Nigantas. We would know the time to do it.
Now I take refuge in the Blessed One, the Teaching and the Community of bhikkhus for the third time.
May I be remembered as a lay disciple who has taken refuge from today until life lasts.’
Quote:
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html
"Endowed with these five qualities, a lay follower is an outcaste of a lay follower, a stain of a lay follower, a dregs of a lay follower. Which five?
He/she does not have conviction [in the Buddha's Awakening]; is unvirtuous; is eager for protective charms & ceremonies; trusts protective charms & ceremonies, not kamma; and searches for recipients of his/her offerings outside [of the Sangha], and gives offerings there first.
Endowed with these five qualities, a lay follower is an outcaste of a lay follower, a stain of a lay follower, a dregs of a lay follower.

"Endowed with these five qualities, a lay follower is a jewel of a lay follower, a lotus of a lay follower, a fine flower of a lay follower.
Which five? He/she has conviction; is virtuous; is not eager for protective charms & ceremonies; trusts kamma, not protective charms & ceremonies;
does not search for recipients of his/her offerings outside [of the Sangha], and gives offerings here first.
Endowed with these five qualities, a lay follower is a jewel of a lay follower, a lotus of a lay follower, a fine flower of a lay follower."

_________________
TWTB BIES OCB DDM BWF


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2013 7:15 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 06, 2009 9:04 pm
Posts: 1727
plwk wrote:
Quote:
http://www.dhammaweb.net/Tipitaka/read.php?id=90
‘Householder since long your clan has been a welling spring to the Nigantas. I think morsel food should be offered to those that come.’
‘Venerable sir, I am very much pleased with these words of the Blessed One.

Householder, since long your clan has been a welling spring to the Nigantas. I think morsel food should be offered to them that come’.
‘Venerable sir, I have heard this said about you. Offerings should be given to me only, not to others.
Offerings should be, to my disciples not to the disciples of other sects.
Offerings made to my disciples are of great fruit, but not the offerings made to others.

Here, the Blessed One advises me to make offerings to the Nigantas. We would know the time to do it.
Now I take refuge in the Blessed One, the Teaching and the Community of bhikkhus for the third time.
May I be remembered as a lay disciple who has taken refuge from today until life lasts.’
Quote:
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html
"Endowed with these five qualities, a lay follower is an outcaste of a lay follower, a stain of a lay follower, a dregs of a lay follower. Which five?
He/she does not have conviction [in the Buddha's Awakening]; is unvirtuous; is eager for protective charms & ceremonies; trusts protective charms & ceremonies, not kamma; and searches for recipients of his/her offerings outside [of the Sangha], and gives offerings there first.
Endowed with these five qualities, a lay follower is an outcaste of a lay follower, a stain of a lay follower, a dregs of a lay follower.

"Endowed with these five qualities, a lay follower is a jewel of a lay follower, a lotus of a lay follower, a fine flower of a lay follower.
Which five? He/she has conviction; is virtuous; is not eager for protective charms & ceremonies; trusts kamma, not protective charms & ceremonies;
does not search for recipients of his/her offerings outside [of the Sangha], and gives offerings here first.
Endowed with these five qualities, a lay follower is a jewel of a lay follower, a lotus of a lay follower, a fine flower of a lay follower."

Thanks for the quotes Plwk. :namaste:

What is a "niganta"? I am assuming that it means "non-Buddhist"... Were they some ancient Jains in India?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2013 7:19 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 8:04 am
Posts: 821
No, why? Bunch of annoying hippies to me.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2013 7:55 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed May 30, 2012 8:28 am
Posts: 2327
Location: the Netherlands and India
HH Dalai Lama distributing food at Bangalore Hare Krishna Food for Life:


_________________
In order to ensure my mind never comes under the power of the self-cherishing attitude,
I must obtain control over my own mind.
Therefore, amongst all empowerments, the empowerment that gives me control over my mind is the best,
and I have received the most profound empowerment with this teaching.
-Atisha Dipamkara
brtsal ba'i bkhra drin


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2013 11:06 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Feb 25, 2010 10:41 am
Posts: 2776
Quote:
What is a "niganta"? I am assuming that it means "non-Buddhist"... Were they some ancient Jains in India?
1 2

On a side note, if I were to go by the OP's logic, then it would seem that most if not all religious organisations in this world, Buddhists included would be excluded from my list, no? There must be a 'middle way' to this don't you think so?

And on another side side note, if you're lucky enough to meet the extremely conservative amongst them, I doubt they would even want to associate with Buddhists and Buddhism, not to speak of your money, such heretics we are lol

_________________
TWTB BIES OCB DDM BWF


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2013 6:58 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2013 3:38 am
Posts: 556
plwk wrote:
Quote:
What is a "niganta"? I am assuming that it means "non-Buddhist"... Were they some ancient Jains in India?
1 2

On a side note, if I were to go by the OP's logic, then it would seem that most if not all religious organisations in this world, Buddhists included would be excluded from my list, no? There must be a 'middle way' to this don't you think so?

And on another side side note, if you're lucky enough to meet the extremely conservative amongst them, I doubt they would even want to associate with Buddhists and Buddhism, not to speak of your money, such heretics we are lol


Of course they would. How can there be a middle way between right and wrong?
As for the side side note, yes, I'm extremely conservative. Accepting offerings from those who follow wrong teachings is to share their iniquity.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2013 8:25 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2011 10:35 pm
Posts: 972
dude wrote:
Of course they would. How can there be a middle way between right and wrong?
As for the side side note, yes, I'm extremely conservative. Accepting offerings from those who follow wrong teachings is to share their iniquity.


Iniquity? Seriously dude wtf? Christianity went thataway.

_________________
"As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly."
~Arthur Carlson


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2013 8:52 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2013 3:38 am
Posts: 556
Who's talking about Christianity?


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 34 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 11 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group