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Emptiness - mahayana and theravada - Dhamma Wheel

Emptiness - mahayana and theravada

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths. What can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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clw_uk
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Emptiness - mahayana and theravada

Postby clw_uk » Tue Jan 13, 2009 7:22 pm

Is there a doctrinal difference between mahayana and theravada on emptiness? Is emptiness tied in with buddha nature or not?
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stuka
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Re: Emptiness - mahayana and theravada

Postby stuka » Tue Jan 13, 2009 7:37 pm


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retrofuturist
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Re: Emptiness - mahayana and theravada

Postby retrofuturist » Tue Jan 13, 2009 10:39 pm

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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jcsuperstar
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Re: Emptiness - mahayana and theravada

Postby jcsuperstar » Tue Jan 13, 2009 11:11 pm

comming from a zen background, i never saw much of a difference in the two kinds of emptiness, i think internet mahayanists just want to push it to a weird extream to say their emptiness is more empty, but really how does that help anyone? we've still gotta work and live in this world, we cant just lay down on train tracks and think the train wont kill us cause its empty or what not...

i got into this discussion with a kung fu buddhist (yeah) and my posistion was "yeah that chair over there is empty , it doesnt exist as anything other than the coming together of causes and conditions, its an event, and it will be over when the causes and conditions for it's arising are over. but if i pick it up and hit you with it, it wont feel empty will it?"
สัพเพ สัตตา สุขีตา โหนตุ

the mountain may be heavy in and of itself, but if you're not trying to carry it it's not heavy to you- Ajaan Suwat

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Jason
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Re: Emptiness - mahayana and theravada

Postby Jason » Wed Jan 14, 2009 2:02 am

"Sabbe dhamma nalam abhinivesaya" ().

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Element

Re: Emptiness - mahayana and theravada

Postby Element » Wed Jan 14, 2009 4:03 am


Individual
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Re: Emptiness - mahayana and theravada

Postby Individual » Wed Jan 14, 2009 4:55 am

The best things in life aren't things.


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retrofuturist
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Re: Emptiness - mahayana and theravada

Postby retrofuturist » Wed Jan 14, 2009 5:08 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

Individual
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Re: Emptiness - mahayana and theravada

Postby Individual » Wed Jan 14, 2009 5:13 am

The best things in life aren't things.


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stuka
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Re: Emptiness - mahayana and theravada

Postby stuka » Wed Jan 14, 2009 5:15 am


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retrofuturist
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Re: Emptiness - mahayana and theravada

Postby retrofuturist » Wed Jan 14, 2009 5:17 am

Greetings Individual,

As someone whom you might label a "modern Theravadin", my take on whether things exists is exactly as per SN 12.15 as referred to previously. Anything beyond that (i.e. what science thinks) is likely to get the "leaves on the floor of the simsapa forest" treatment.

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

Individual
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Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2009 2:19 am

Re: Emptiness - mahayana and theravada

Postby Individual » Wed Jan 14, 2009 5:18 am

Also, Retrofuturist: A strawman is when you're in a debate and you attack an argument that your opponent isn't making. In this case, there are no "opponents" here and my statement there was a remark not directly related to what you said, certainly not a direct attack on anything you said or didn't say. I'm not even sure I would consider you a "modern Theravada," Buddhist since, although that generally seemed true for a long time, recently you mentioned that you do have confidence in the possibility of siddhis. So, you seem to be more of a good Theravada Buddhist, who follows "Middle Way" Theravada Buddhism, devoid of unnecessary speculation, unnecessary opposition to speculation, dogmatism, and sectarianism.
The best things in life aren't things.


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stuka
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Re: Emptiness - mahayana and theravada

Postby stuka » Wed Jan 14, 2009 5:27 am


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stuka
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Re: Emptiness - mahayana and theravada

Postby stuka » Wed Jan 14, 2009 5:44 am

Last edited by stuka on Wed Jan 14, 2009 6:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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retrofuturist
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Re: Emptiness - mahayana and theravada

Postby retrofuturist » Wed Jan 14, 2009 8:54 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

Element

Re: Emptiness - mahayana and theravada

Postby Element » Wed Jan 14, 2009 10:18 am


Element

Re: Emptiness - mahayana and theravada

Postby Element » Wed Jan 14, 2009 11:00 am


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Anders
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Re: Emptiness - mahayana and theravada

Postby Anders » Wed Jan 14, 2009 4:29 pm


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retrofuturist
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Re: Emptiness - mahayana and theravada

Postby retrofuturist » Wed Jan 14, 2009 8:40 pm

Greetings Element,

Essentially I agree with you... it's simply the Buddha pointing towards what is relevant in a phenomenological sense. That which is relevant isn't necessary a direct answer to the question provided, even if it may be a better or more accurate or more relevant answer than the questioner was expecting. Such is often the case in the suttas.

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

Element

Re: Emptiness - mahayana and theravada

Postby Element » Wed Jan 14, 2009 10:10 pm



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