15th Karmapa practice?
15th Karmapa practice?
Hi,
Is there anyone who knows anything about the 15th Karmapa meditation? Lama Ole Nydahl teaches the practice. However, the great Kagyu lamas do not want it to be taught in public.
The only thing I know about this practice is that we appears in the form of Dorje Phagmo with Karmapa in our hearts and send light to all sentient beings. Maybe there is someone who can tell me more?
I would be very grateful if someone could help me.
Is there anyone who knows anything about the 15th Karmapa meditation? Lama Ole Nydahl teaches the practice. However, the great Kagyu lamas do not want it to be taught in public.
The only thing I know about this practice is that we appears in the form of Dorje Phagmo with Karmapa in our hearts and send light to all sentient beings. Maybe there is someone who can tell me more?
I would be very grateful if someone could help me.
- conebeckham
- Posts: 5694
- Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2010 11:49 pm
- Location: Bay Area, CA, USA
Re: 15th Karmapa practice?
Could it be that you're asking about the "Thun Shi Lamai Naljor," which is a practice based on Karmapa--but the 8th, not the 15th? I'm not aware of a 15th Karmapa practice that is "popular" but I know Ole teaches the Thun Shi....and the details you write about lead me to believe that is it.....
དམ་པའི་དོན་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ཆེ་བ་དང་།
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།
"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།
"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")
Re: 15th Karmapa practice?
Lama Ole spoke once about the different versions of the Karmapa meditation. He talked about the guru yoga of 2nd, 3rd, 8th, 15th and 16th Karmapa. I know that Ole teaches 15th Karmapa night practice, but I'm not sure if this is the meditation, in which Lama appears in the union. Maybe there are 2 different practices... I guess I should ask this question of one of the Kagyu lamas.
This is the cover text of the night practice of 15th Karmapa that Lama Ole teaches.
This is the cover text of the night practice of 15th Karmapa that Lama Ole teaches.
Re: 15th Karmapa practice?
The picture above is a support for the guruyoga of the 15th Karmapa called bla ma´i rnal ´byor bde chen grub pa´i thig le (Thigle of the accomplishment of great bliss). This practice is considered secret and requires an empowerment.lasirene wrote:Hi,
Is there anyone who knows anything about the 15th Karmapa meditation? Lama Ole Nydahl teaches the practice. However, the great Kagyu lamas do not want it to be taught in public.
The only thing I know about this practice is that we appears in the form of Dorje Phagmo with Karmapa in our hearts and send light to all sentient beings. Maybe there is someone who can tell me more?
I would be very grateful if someone could help me.
As for the "Clear Light Meditation" I don´t know where it comes from, since it is not a part of Dechen drubpe thigle. Also it is not included in the collection of short guruyogas by the 15th Karmapa. So I don´t know who is the author of that, maybe Ole?
Re: 15th Karmapa practice?
Wow thanks a lot. That's what I needed.dzoki wrote: The picture above is a support for the guruyoga of the 15th Karmapa called bla ma´i rnal ´byor bde chen grub pa´i thig le (Thigle of the accomplishment of great bliss). This practice is considered secret and requires an empowerment.
Lama Ole received the oral transmission of this practice from Gendyn Rinpoche. He later wrote the text of "Clear Light Meditation".dzoki wrote:As for the "Clear Light Meditation" I don´t know where it comes from, since it is not a part of Dechen drubpe thigle. Also it is not included in the collection of short guruyogas by the 15th Karmapa. So I don´t know who is the author of that, maybe Ole?
Re: 15th Karmapa practice?
dzoki wrote:The picture above is a support for the guruyoga of the 15th Karmapa called bla ma´i rnal ´byor bde chen grub pa´i thig le (Thigle of the accomplishment of great bliss). This practice is considered secret and requires an empowerment.lasirene wrote:Hi,
Is there anyone who knows anything about the 15th Karmapa meditation? Lama Ole Nydahl teaches the practice. However, the great Kagyu lamas do not want it to be taught in public.
The only thing I know about this practice is that we appears in the form of Dorje Phagmo with Karmapa in our hearts and send light to all sentient beings. Maybe there is someone who can tell me more?
I would be very grateful if someone could help me.
As for the "Clear Light Meditation" I don´t know where it comes from, since it is not a part of Dechen drubpe thigle. Also it is not included in the collection of short guruyogas by the 15th Karmapa. So I don´t know who is the author of that, maybe Ole?
Hi Dzoki,
The text 'The Thigle that Accomplishes Great Bliss' that I am familiar with, is a commentary composed by the 15th Karmapa about the Guru Yoga of Karma Pakshi which was revealed by Yongey Mingyur Dorje in the 17th century. I have received transmission and extensive instruction on this Sadhana, and it's commentary, from my Guru.
I have never heard of this text specifically in relation to Khakyab Dorje as the actual object of the Sadhana. But I'm open to new information. Is it on TBRC?, if so please link me to the text. Edit: Found it, will compare it against the text I have. Re-Edit: Now I can't find the Tibetan version of my text, think it is elsewhere at my parents house, so not comparing it today!.
The Image we see is a Karmapa in union, with single form Khorlo Demchog and Vajravarhi below, both of whom appear in the "Thun Shi Lamai Naljor" of Mikyo Dorje, also Mahakala Bernachen and Kuntu Zangpo, Guru Rinpoche and Saraha above. This is the only image of it's kind I have seen, and would like to know more about it, and how authentic it is.
Best wishes,
Stewart.
s.
- conebeckham
- Posts: 5694
- Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2010 11:49 pm
- Location: Bay Area, CA, USA
Re: 15th Karmapa practice?
I seem to recall the same thing as Stewart, and I have 15th Karmapa's collected works, so will go do some research later on when I get time, and will report back.
དམ་པའི་དོན་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ཆེ་བ་དང་།
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།
"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།
"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")
Re: 15th Karmapa practice?
I'm guessing here, but I suspect it may be a practice based on one of the six yogas of Naropa.lasirene wrote:Lama Ole received the oral transmission of this practice from Gendyn Rinpoche. He later wrote the text of "Clear Light Meditation".dzoki wrote:As for the "Clear Light Meditation" I don´t know where it comes from, since it is not a part of Dechen drubpe thigle. Also it is not included in the collection of short guruyogas by the 15th Karmapa. So I don´t know who is the author of that, maybe Ole?
- conebeckham
- Posts: 5694
- Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2010 11:49 pm
- Location: Bay Area, CA, USA
Re: 15th Karmapa practice?
The first volume of 15th Karmapa's collected works contains this "Lamai Naljor," or Guru Yoga, which is indeed distinct from the Guru Yoga of the 8th Karmapa. The one we are discussing contains such elements as "Dudtsi blessing" and also a tsok. But it's similar, in many respects, to the famous and popular Thun Shi Lamai Naljor. If you can read Tibetan, it's available at TBRC as well, I'm sure, in Khakyab Dorje's KaBum. There is also some focus on Clear Light, and Mahamudra, as completion stage practices.
As for Clear Light Meditation, I don't know what Ole's book contains, but there are a lot of presentations of Clear Light, not merely in Naropa's Six Yogas. These things are best learned and discussed with one's teacher, for sure.
As for Clear Light Meditation, I don't know what Ole's book contains, but there are a lot of presentations of Clear Light, not merely in Naropa's Six Yogas. These things are best learned and discussed with one's teacher, for sure.
དམ་པའི་དོན་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ཆེ་བ་དང་།
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།
"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།
"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")
Re: 15th Karmapa practice?
This is kind of the night practice. We appear in the form of Dorje Phagmo with the 15th Karmapa in our heart. Then we send light to all sentient beings, and fall asleep. After waking up the light coming back to us, etc..conebeckham wrote:As for Clear Light Meditation, I don't know what Ole's book contains, but there are a lot of presentations of Clear Light, not merely in Naropa's Six Yogas.
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Re: 15th Karmapa practice?
Hi
Lama Ole Nydhal received this particular practice from Gendun Rinpoche, who received it from Pawo Rinpoche. Pawo Rinpoche received this from 15th Karmapa himself.
So I`ve heard
Lama Ole Nydhal received this particular practice from Gendun Rinpoche, who received it from Pawo Rinpoche. Pawo Rinpoche received this from 15th Karmapa himself.
So I`ve heard