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the great rebirth debate - Page 25 - Dhamma Wheel

the great rebirth debate

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
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piotr
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Re: the great rebirth debate

Postby piotr » Sun May 17, 2009 3:35 pm

Bhagavaṃmūlakā no, bhante, dhammā...

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Re: the great rebirth debate

Postby clw_uk » Sun May 17, 2009 3:57 pm

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Re: the great rebirth debate

Postby piotr » Sun May 17, 2009 4:28 pm

Bhagavaṃmūlakā no, bhante, dhammā...

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Re: the great rebirth debate

Postby tiltbillings » Sun May 17, 2009 4:51 pm


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Re: the great rebirth debate

Postby clw_uk » Sun May 17, 2009 5:08 pm

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Re: the great rebirth debate

Postby clw_uk » Sun May 17, 2009 5:23 pm

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piotr
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Re: the great rebirth debate

Postby piotr » Sun May 17, 2009 5:56 pm

Bhagavaṃmūlakā no, bhante, dhammā...

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Re: the great rebirth debate

Postby clw_uk » Sun May 17, 2009 6:28 pm

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Re: the great rebirth debate

Postby piotr » Sun May 17, 2009 7:11 pm

Bhagavaṃmūlakā no, bhante, dhammā...

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Re: the great rebirth debate

Postby Individual » Mon May 18, 2009 4:02 am

The best things in life aren't things.


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Re: the great rebirth debate

Postby clw_uk » Mon May 18, 2009 9:36 pm

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edniso
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Re: the great rebirth debate

Postby edniso » Sat May 23, 2009 6:14 pm

I noticed that this thread has been going on for a while, nearly half a year. I can see this debate going on easily for another 6 months. I definitely enjoy both sides of the debate as it opens new views and ideas. However, I don't think belief in either side of the rebirth definition matters in our journey of easing our sufferings. If you practice the path, ease your suffering and become enlightened, you will neither have any type of rebirth whether it is birth of mental formations or an actual birth (womb rebirth) in another realm. I think an enlightened person (Arahant) will have neither of these.

I always try to be open minded. I admit there are a lot of things that we don't understand and doesn't make logical sense. Even in science such as quantum mechanics, things just don't make sense. So I don't think about something metaphysical that my brain just can't comprehend. The best I could do is keep open minded and keep possibilities open. If there is actually another planes of existence, then there is such thing as heaven and hell. If there is no such thing, then there is no such thing. Either way, that's how the universe is.

So the main thing we should do is to practice the path and try to end our suffering. Even if we cannot become an Arahant before our physical bodies cease to function (not i didn't use the word "die" here b/c don't want to confuse with the 2 diff views of birth and death), we can easily ease our daily pains. And if it turns out heavens exist, well then we become devas because of our good karma and hopefully end this cycle of suffering pretty soon. If it doesn't exist, then we live the rest of our days with peace and equanimity. Either way, you can't lose.

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Re: the great rebirth debate

Postby tiltbillings » Sat May 23, 2009 8:28 pm


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Re: the great rebirth debate

Postby Guy » Sun May 24, 2009 3:50 am

What if there is no rebirth?

Then, to be frank, this whole path is a waste of time!

What if there is rebirth?

And if birth is suffering (and all that follows), then how do we remove the causes for future rebirths?

It is natural to have doubts about rebirth, but I have seen some people reject rebirth completely because they attach to the sakkaya ditthi that they are rational, skeptical, unsuperstitious people which to me is just as foolish as believing in rebirth completely without recalling one's own past-lives. Ajahn Brahm has mentioned that some people simply don't want to believe in rebirth because one life is enough suffering and the thought that there might be another (or many more) lives is simply too much suffering!

Until such time as we can recall our own past lives, it is best to try to keep an open mind. If we consider ourselves as Buddhists and we have put some of the teachings of the Buddha into practice and have realized the benefits accordingly then naturally we will at least have some faith that the rest of the teachings including the more elusive subjects of rebirth and kamma are PROBABLY true.

I haven't read all of the posts on this great debate (yet) but if no one has yet mentioned it, I recommend doing a google search on . Also Ajahn Brahm has many talks on rebirth available for download at the .

Keep meditating, have faith (without falling into the extremes of blind faith or "blind skepticism") and maybe one day you will realize the truth of rebirth.

Just my 2 cents.

With Metta,

Guy
Four types of letting go:

1) Giving; expecting nothing back in return
2) Throwing things away
3) Contentment; wanting to be here, not wanting to be anywhere else
4) "Teflon Mind"; having a mind which doesn't accumulate things

- Ajahn Brahm

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clw_uk
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Re: the great rebirth debate

Postby clw_uk » Sun May 24, 2009 1:23 pm

Last edited by clw_uk on Sun May 24, 2009 1:40 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: the great rebirth debate

Postby clw_uk » Sun May 24, 2009 1:30 pm

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tiltbillings
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Re: the great rebirth debate

Postby tiltbillings » Sun May 24, 2009 3:53 pm


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Re: the great rebirth debate

Postby clw_uk » Sun May 24, 2009 4:13 pm

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Re: the great rebirth debate

Postby tiltbillings » Sun May 24, 2009 4:49 pm


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Re: the great rebirth debate

Postby clw_uk » Sun May 24, 2009 6:38 pm

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