Stage of Non-retrogression

Brynmr
Posts: 5
Joined: Wed Aug 21, 2013 1:02 pm

Stage of Non-retrogression

Postby Brynmr » Thu Aug 22, 2013 12:20 pm

In the section describing the three grades of aspirants in the Larger Sutra on Amida Buddha, both the high and the middle grades will "dwell in the Stage of Non-retrogression". I take this to mean they will not fall back into Samsaric rebirths. However this isn't stated for the lower grade. Does this mean the lower grade of aspirants will fall back into cyclic rebirths - Samsara? Thanks guys, I couldn't find this question anywhere.

plwk
Posts: 2933
Joined: Thu Feb 25, 2010 10:41 am

Re: Stage of Non-retrogression

Postby plwk » Thu Aug 22, 2013 1:54 pm


User avatar
Astus
Former staff member
Posts: 6615
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 11:22 pm
Location: Budapest

Re: Stage of Non-retrogression

Postby Astus » Thu Aug 22, 2013 3:57 pm

A whole chapter on the subject in Shinran's Kyogyoshinsho: .
Myriad dharmas are only mind.
Mind is unobtainable.
What is there to seek?

If the Buddha-Nature is seen,
there will be no seeing of a nature in any thing.

Neither cultivation nor seated meditation —
this is the pure Chan of Tathagata.

With sudden enlightenment to Tathagata Chan,
the six paramitas and myriad means
are complete within that essence.



Brynmr
Posts: 5
Joined: Wed Aug 21, 2013 1:02 pm

Re: Stage of Non-retrogression

Postby Brynmr » Thu Aug 22, 2013 5:27 pm

Ok I get it - thanks so much for your help. From my copy of the Smaller Sutra:

“Again, Śāriputra, all sentient beings born in the Land of Utmost Bliss
dwell in the stage of non-retrogression.

and from another translation:

'Again, Shariputra, the beings born in the land Sukhavati are all Avinivartaniya.

User avatar
sinweiy
Posts: 271
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2011 3:18 am
Location: Singapore
Contact:

Re: Stage of Non-retrogression

Postby sinweiy » Fri Aug 23, 2013 2:17 am

I also think it's All sentient beings born in the Land of Utmost Bliss dwell in the stage of non-retrogression.
:smile:
_/\_
Amituofo!

"Enlightenment is to turn around and see MY own mistake, Other's mistake is also my mistake. Others are right even if they are wrong. i'm wrong even if i'm right. " - Master Chin Kung

User avatar
sinweiy
Posts: 271
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2011 3:18 am
Location: Singapore
Contact:

Re: Stage of Non-retrogression

Postby sinweiy » Fri Aug 23, 2013 2:33 am

for me, the Stage of Non-retrogression is Non-retrogression of the Path toward Bodhi/Enlightenment, not much to do with rebirth.
it doesn't mean one don't manifest into other world as Bodhisattvas to performing their Bodhisattva-duties in the form of manifestation bodies, be it any form of bodies like in Lotus Sutra Chapter 25. but you will be wearing the Armour of vows that no suffering can harm you! :smile:

Vow 22
Provided I become a Buddha, the Bodhisattvas who come to be born in that country of mine are to be bound to that one birth only, then to become Buddha-elect (Ekajatipratibuddhas), with the exception of those who by their own free will remain in the stage of Bodhisattva-hood for the sake of delivering various beings, wearing the armour of vows to travel to all worlds, performing their Bodhisattva-duties and accumulating their stock of merit, who wish to serve the Buddhas of ten quarters, and convert the various beings in number like grains of sand of the River Ganges to the highest perfect knowledge, whose activities have surpassed the stage of ordinary beings, and who practise the universal virtue of Samantabhadra, otherwise may I not attain the enlightenment.
http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Amitabha% ... eight_vows




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Wonderful Dharma Lotus Sutra
Chapter Twenty-five -- The Universal Door Of Avalokitesvara Bodhisattva ( Guanshiyin / The Bodhisattva Who Contemplates The Sounds Of The World )
http://www.fodian.net/world/0262_25.html
_/\_
Amituofo!

"Enlightenment is to turn around and see MY own mistake, Other's mistake is also my mistake. Others are right even if they are wrong. i'm wrong even if i'm right. " - Master Chin Kung

Brynmr
Posts: 5
Joined: Wed Aug 21, 2013 1:02 pm

Re: Stage of Non-retrogression

Postby Brynmr » Fri Aug 23, 2013 3:47 am

Vow 22 indicates a choice and is that "one birth only" the birth one took into the Pure Land of Sukhavati?

User avatar
sinweiy
Posts: 271
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2011 3:18 am
Location: Singapore
Contact:

Re: Stage of Non-retrogression

Postby sinweiy » Sat Aug 24, 2013 10:17 am

yes "one birth only" into Sukhavati without real suffering. as compare to ordinary reincarnation/rebirth in "samsara" that still have suffering. in that sense both the choices are one birth only. one no longer fall back to lower realms. note that the "manifestation" of bodhisattva/mahasattvas in the form of "rebirth" are different, in the sense that the samsaric rebirth are governed by karma, while the pureland rebirths are governed by vows/aspiration/bodhi. the former one do not have much control, while the latter one do have greater control, coming and going is all up to you. :)

one (of the 3 conditions within the Chinese Pureland school is generating Bodhi. although Bodhi do have deeper explanation. normally they will want you to have a heart to come back to samsara as bodhisattvas to help others than to be selfish, only thinking of escaping samsara.

http://www.amtbweb.org/threeconditions.html

Amitabha sutra do mention about purelanders going out to many world systems to make flower offerings to different different Buddhas. making flower offerings generate huge amount of merits that are useful for the path. just FYI.
:smile:
_/\_
Amituofo!

"Enlightenment is to turn around and see MY own mistake, Other's mistake is also my mistake. Others are right even if they are wrong. i'm wrong even if i'm right. " - Master Chin Kung

Brynmr
Posts: 5
Joined: Wed Aug 21, 2013 1:02 pm

Re: Stage of Non-retrogression

Postby Brynmr » Sun Sep 01, 2013 5:10 am

That's good to know. I've had enough suffering from this world. But I wouldn't think of not helping others. I'm a poor practitioner but I do have a good, caring heart.

User avatar
zamotcr
Posts: 168
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2012 3:11 am
Location: San Jose, Costa Rica
Contact:

Re: Stage of Non-retrogression

Postby zamotcr » Mon Sep 16, 2013 5:03 am


plwk
Posts: 2933
Joined: Thu Feb 25, 2010 10:41 am

Re: Stage of Non-retrogression

Postby plwk » Mon Sep 16, 2013 7:28 am


User avatar
zamotcr
Posts: 168
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2012 3:11 am
Location: San Jose, Costa Rica
Contact:

Re: Stage of Non-retrogression

Postby zamotcr » Mon Sep 16, 2013 4:05 pm

Thanks plwk! It could be that way, indeed. :anjali:


Return to “Pure Land”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests