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 Post subject: Direct rebirth as a bug
PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2013 1:54 pm 
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Can you reborn as a bug? Like a spider, an ant, etc?

Its confusing to imagine an human being, full of conscience and much more clairy than a bug, to reborn as a bug.

I mean, it wouldnt be hard to imagine a downwards spiral, like: human, then reborn as a monk, then as a rat, then a bug; but directly from human to an insect...

Have you ever tought on that?


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2013 3:12 pm 
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i think you can be born as a tiny bacteria inside a dogs belly.

i once saw a dream of space and it was the energy of lama yeshe and lama zopa rinpoche revealing to me that most unimaginable rebirths are possible. there is nothing limiting your potential to be.

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If the thought of demons
Never rises in your mind,
You need not fear the demon hosts around you.
It is most important to tame your mind within....

In so far as the Ultimate, or the true nature of being is concerned,
there are neither buddhas or demons.
He who frees himself from fear and hope, evil and virtue,
will realize the insubstantial and groundless nature of confusion.
Samsara will then appear as the mahamudra itself….

-Milarepa

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ls6P9tOYmdo


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2013 4:57 pm 
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Nosta wrote:
Can you reborn as a bug? Like a spider, an ant, etc?

Its confusing to imagine an human being, full of conscience and much more clairy than a bug, to reborn as a bug.

I mean, it wouldnt be hard to imagine a downwards spiral, like: human, then reborn as a monk, then as a rat, then a bug; but directly from human to an insect...

Have you ever tought on that?


A monk is a lower rebirth than a human?? I think this secularism thing is going too far.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2013 5:36 pm 
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I can think of humans who, in my non-omniscient opinion, are likely to be born much lower than a bug. :evil:

Om mani padme hum
Keith


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2013 9:33 pm 
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Nosta wrote:
Can you reborn as a bug? Like a spider, an ant, etc?

Its confusing to imagine an human being, full of conscience and much more clairy than a bug, to reborn as a bug.

I mean, it wouldnt be hard to imagine a downwards spiral, like: human, then reborn as a monk, then as a rat, then a bug; but directly from human to an insect...

Have you ever tought on that?


That depends on whether one believes that "consciousness" or "mind" is related to the size of ones brain and/or body.

Gassho
Seishin

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2013 9:58 pm 
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 12:19 am 
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Being human is not the same as being better, I know that. But my question come to me when thinking in the conscience of a bug and the conscience of a human being. Bad or not, one is fully aware of things, more inteligent, etc; and then its hard to imagine how such a being can go directly from something like that (inteligent, aware of things, clear mind) to something so cloudy as the mind of a bug.

And remember, my point here is more about the clarity of mind and not about being good or bad. I know very well that many human beings are thousands of time worst than demons. Hitler is a good example.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 12:59 am 
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Check out the "is space conscious" thread here: viewtopic.php?f=66&t=13965&view=unread#unread

I think the question posed here is a complete misunderstanding of what it means to be human as well as what "rebirth" means.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 5:00 am 
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Quote:
I think the question posed here is a complete misunderstanding of what it means to be human as well as what "rebirth" means.

The lamas from Tibet that I've met would think the question posed here was spot-on. Only westerners have a problem with it.

Having said that, I remember Chime R. saying to the effect that humans tend to have karmic momentum (or something like that) and tend to be reborn human--but not always!

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 1:51 pm 
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Nosta wrote:
And remember, my point here is more about the clarity of mind and not about being good or bad.

"Clarity of mind" is a very temporary thing. Have you ever drunk alcohol or taken drugs? (Rhetorical question - you don't have to answer. :) ) Ever had a concussion or passed out? Ever been asleep?

Clarity of mind is so fleeting that it is amazing we have as much of it as we do. It is easy to lose it.

Om mani padme hum
Keith


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 10:47 pm 
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smcj wrote:
I remember Chime R. saying to the effect that humans tend to have karmic momentum (or something like that) and tend to be reborn human--but not always!
Whatever happened to the tortoise-and-rubber-ring analogy :jawdrop: ? It would make sense if the 'sangha jury' were still 'out' on such matters _ _

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 11:08 pm 
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undefineable wrote:
smcj wrote:
I remember Chime R. saying to the effect that humans tend to have karmic momentum (or something like that) and tend to be reborn human--but not always!
Whatever happened to the tortoise-and-rubber-ring analogy :jawdrop: ? It would make sense if the 'sangha jury' were still 'out' on such matters _ _

The tortoise-and-rubber-ring analogy isn't for just any human rebirth. It is for a human rebirth where one has both the opportunity and inclination to practice Dharma, hence the precious human rebirth. If weighed against all the trillions of ants, fish, and such, the way the rarity is expressed seems statistically pretty accurate.

A footnote to that idea: If the teaching on PHR is understood and believed, it negates 80%+ of current western culture. Most of our modern culture is based on the assumption that there is no thing such as "Ultimate Truth", and if there is, it is not accessible to humans. That teaching says, "No, it is possible, only it is very rare." The rarity of the opportunity is why we have concluded it does not exist--wrong!

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A human being has his limits. And thus, in every conceivable way, with every possible means, he tries to make the teaching enter into his own limits. ChNN


Last edited by smcj on Sun Sep 15, 2013 11:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 11:11 pm 
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Thanks for the answers so far.

KeithBC, good point! I didnt tought on that about clarity, thanks for clarifying my mind :D


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 5:36 pm 
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How did rebirth work before humans? Humans have been on the scene for such a brief amount of time Earth-wise and cosmically. We will be extinct too in short order.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 5:46 pm 
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As the thread suggests, you can be reborn as anything, and not just beings with a physical form. There are ethereal beings also.

Gassho,
Seishin

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 6:05 pm 
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AlphaOmega wrote:
How did rebirth work before humans? Humans have been on the scene for such a brief amount of time Earth-wise and cosmically. We will be extinct too in short order.

It took a long time to get past the karma of being dinosaurs.

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A human being has his limits. And thus, in every conceivable way, with every possible means, he tries to make the teaching enter into his own limits. ChNN


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 6:20 pm 
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lol, funny answer

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If the thought of demons
Never rises in your mind,
You need not fear the demon hosts around you.
It is most important to tame your mind within....

In so far as the Ultimate, or the true nature of being is concerned,
there are neither buddhas or demons.
He who frees himself from fear and hope, evil and virtue,
will realize the insubstantial and groundless nature of confusion.
Samsara will then appear as the mahamudra itself….

-Milarepa

OMMANIPADMEHUNG

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ls6P9tOYmdo


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 8:05 am 
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Nosta wrote:
Can you reborn as a bug? Like a spider, an ant, etc?


No.

You might be taught this as part of Hindu influenced ignorance. It should be regarded as particular to forms of a buddhism that are perpetuated by those without a comprehensive education.
I have been 'taught' this in a Buddhist context. Some children in America are being 'taught' intelligent design as a form of 'science'.
I think we have to use a little of our post insect brain in all forms of 'teaching', otherwise the bugs might take over the earth . . . :namaste:

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 8:50 am 
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lobster wrote:
Nosta wrote:
Can you reborn as a bug? Like a spider, an ant, etc?


No.

You might be taught this as part of Hindu influenced ignorance. It should be regarded as particular to forms of a buddhism that are perpetuated by those without a comprehensive education.
I have been 'taught' this in a Buddhist context. Some children in America are being 'taught' intelligent design as a form of 'science'.
I think we have to use a little of our post insect brain in all forms of 'teaching', otherwise the bugs might take over the earth . . . :namaste:

This is satire, right?


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 9:16 am 
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tomamundsen wrote:
lobster wrote:
Nosta wrote:
Can you reborn as a bug? Like a spider, an ant, etc?


No.

You might be taught this as part of Hindu influenced ignorance. It should be regarded as particular to forms of a buddhism that are perpetuated by those without a comprehensive education.
I have been 'taught' this in a Buddhist context. Some children in America are being 'taught' intelligent design as a form of 'science'.
I think we have to use a little of our post insect brain in all forms of 'teaching', otherwise the bugs might take over the earth . . . :namaste:

This is satire, right?


I hope so, otherwise it is incredibly rude

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