Ordaining as a monk or nun in the west

Discuss your personal experience with the Dharma here. How has it enriched your life? What challenges does it present?

Re: Ordaining as a monk or nun in the west

Postby Luke » Sat Aug 24, 2013 10:57 pm

JKhedrup wrote:My observations after 9 years of ordination, 6 spent in the Tibetan tradition and 3 in Theravada and Chinese monasteries...

Ven. JKhedrup, I found your story very interesting, and now that I know more about the challenges you faced and how you overcame them, I have a lot of respect for you.

I think that it might be good if there were some website which presented your story along with the stories of many other western Buddhist monastics, as well as a description of the problems and challenges facing western monastics. I think that if more people knew more about the difficult situation that most western monastics are in, that they would be much more willing to help.

The posts on this forum reach some people, but a good website which contained photos of you western monastics along with your stories could have a greater impact on more people, I think. Perhaps you might even be able to get someone like Richard Gere to contribute! You never know...

I used to be one of those westerners who only had a lot of respect for Asian Buddhist teachers, but now I see how wrong I was. There are many western Buddhist teachers who do their jobs as sincerely as anyone else, and western monastics have taken this sincerity to another level.

Western monastics are very important for more firmly establishing the dharma in the west!


JKhedrup wrote:Conditions are hard but things can change when you feel you are at the end of your rope.

Yes, this is an important fact for us all to remember! :namaste:
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Re: Ordaining as a monk or nun in the west

Postby KonchokZoepa » Wed Sep 11, 2013 5:22 pm

JKhedrup wrote:
For those interested in specifically Vajrayana monastic training they have no choice but to live with the uncertainty, pretty much. The only Vajrayana country ruling itself at the moment is Bhutan and they are notoriously reluctant to issue foreigners long-term visas. I am uncertain as to whether even a well known Bhutanese lama like Dzongsar Kyentse Rinpoche would be able to secure visas for his students. I have not heard of any long term Western practitioner or monastic residents in Bhutan.



actually you are wrong on this matter. a place called Kalmykia independent state in russia and is a vajrayana nation. allthough i dont have an idea what the situation is like there. i dont know the language or anything about visas or stuff. but i was amazed to find a buddhist vajrayana nation in europe.
If the thought of demons
Never rises in your mind,
You need not fear the demon hosts around you.
It is most important to tame your mind within....

In so far as the Ultimate, or the true nature of being is concerned,
there are neither buddhas or demons.
He who frees himself from fear and hope, evil and virtue,
will realize the insubstantial and groundless nature of confusion.
Samsara will then appear as the mahamudra itself….

-Milarepa

OMMANIPADMEHUNG

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ls6P9tOYmdo
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Re: Ordaining as a monk or nun in the west

Postby JKhedrup » Thu Sep 12, 2013 8:30 am

I am not so sure Kalmykia is truly independent, foreign affairs seem to be decided by Russia according to its own interests. HH Dalai Lama was there once ages ago and they have been trying to invite him back ever since. The Russian government won't hear of it and has refused all appeals, there was even a foundation established to try and get around the problem, but to no avail.
In order to ensure my mind never comes under the power of the self-cherishing attitude,
I must obtain control over my own mind.
Therefore, amongst all empowerments, the empowerment that gives me control over my mind is the best,
and I have received the most profound empowerment with this teaching.
-Atisha Dipamkara
brtsal ba'i bkhra drin
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Re: Ordaining as a monk or nun in the west

Postby Sherlock » Thu Sep 12, 2013 9:01 am

I think Gangteng Tulku Rinpoche managed to work out a deal for 3-year retreatants in Bhutan.
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Re: Ordaining as a monk or nun in the west

Postby JKhedrup » Thu Sep 12, 2013 9:29 am

That is amazing! A three year retreat in Bhutan would be incredible, with so many holy places in the country. Perhaps as the country opens up there will be more opportunities? I am sure many would love to spend time there, for a longer period rather than just a short tour.

Here are the bits and pieces I was able to find on the Buddhist regions in Russia (Kalmykia and Buryatria). I don't think they would be a very viable option for Westerners.

I remember an initiation in Dharamsala with HHDL that was sponsored by Telo Rinpoche, one of the important lamas from the Russian Buddhist regions. Rinpoche mentioned that there was practically nothing that could be done to arrange visas for visiting lamas except through the Russian government, and also that there were no study and practice facilities in the region really capable of complete training, so he sends monks to the Tibetan monasteries in exile mostly in South India.

"We are talking about a pastoral visit, and His Holiness the Dalai Lama would like to visit Kalmykia, Buryatia, and Tuva, where Buddhists traditionally live," Kapura said

Kapura recalled that the last time the Dalai Lama visited Russia was in 2004. "People in Kalmykia still remember this visit," he said.

"Beijing's position on the Dalai Lama's visit is very tough and clear, and it is obvious that Russia cannot help but take this into account," Kapura said.

http://www.phayul.com/news/article.aspx?id=27048&t=1

http://www.rediff.com/news/interview/wa ... 121223.htm
In order to ensure my mind never comes under the power of the self-cherishing attitude,
I must obtain control over my own mind.
Therefore, amongst all empowerments, the empowerment that gives me control over my mind is the best,
and I have received the most profound empowerment with this teaching.
-Atisha Dipamkara
brtsal ba'i bkhra drin
JKhedrup
 
Posts: 2324
Joined: Wed May 30, 2012 8:28 am
Location: the Netherlands and India

Re: Ordaining as a monk or nun in the west

Postby KonchokZoepa » Thu Sep 12, 2013 7:13 pm

i just had a conversation with a karma kagyu nun who has ordained in scotlands samye ling.

i did not find any posts concerning samye ling and scotlands situation.

i think there is a possibility to try to be a monk for a years and then discuss the matter with the Abbot.

i also heard that in scotland the social security system supports the monks and nuns living there with some money every month.

relating this to what the discussion on this thread has been about the bad conditions of westerners ordaining in the tibetan buddhist tradition. i thought to mention it here quickly to say that the situation in scotland seems pretty well. but i think you still need some small income outside on top of that to be able to support your livelihood as a monk. but i think its still pretty awesome that scotlands government supports also monks and nuns, and seemingly this applies also to foreigners. at least for people from EU from what i know.
If the thought of demons
Never rises in your mind,
You need not fear the demon hosts around you.
It is most important to tame your mind within....

In so far as the Ultimate, or the true nature of being is concerned,
there are neither buddhas or demons.
He who frees himself from fear and hope, evil and virtue,
will realize the insubstantial and groundless nature of confusion.
Samsara will then appear as the mahamudra itself….

-Milarepa

OMMANIPADMEHUNG

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ls6P9tOYmdo
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Re: Ordaining as a monk or nun in the west

Postby undefineable » Thu Sep 12, 2013 8:26 pm

KonchokZoepa wrote:i also heard that in scotland the social security system supports the monks and nuns living there with some money every month _ _ scotlands government supports also monks and nuns, and seemingly this applies also to foreigners. at least for people from EU from what i know.
As a UK citizen I find that hard to believe, though with a larger proportion, per head, of both UK oil revenue (I think) and taxpayer spend relative to tax paid (because of the 'devolved parliament' system that transfers net government funds from English taxpayers to Scottish citizens and because of the European Union subsidy system that transfers funds from more-productive to less-productive regions), there's probably still more "free lunches" (as the saying goes) sloshing around in Scotland than in England.

In any case, since taxation is theft by definition, wouldn't the "support" you mentioned actually be a serious breach of the second lay precept -to say nothing of monastic codes- ?!
"Removing the barrier between this and that is the only solution" {Chogyam Trungpa - "The Lion's Roar"}
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Re: Ordaining as a monk or nun in the west

Postby KonchokZoepa » Thu Sep 12, 2013 8:38 pm

i think gloablly and karmically people pay taxes for the welfare of the system, its not theft, its a law, basically. of course you can view it as a theft but the tax money goes to the welfare of the people. so it can be viewed as generosity, dana, or it can be given bitterly thinking that the government is robbing from you when they are actually building roads, education, school , paying government and the social system workers theyre salaries, helping the people in need, wether a poor or a monastic.

i found it very interesting to hear that in scotland there is almost as good of a social security and welfare system as in finland.

i dont have the answer to wether accepting government support when being a monk is a violation of the second precept or not. basically there is no intention of robbing, no action of robbing committed so where is the karma of theft.
If the thought of demons
Never rises in your mind,
You need not fear the demon hosts around you.
It is most important to tame your mind within....

In so far as the Ultimate, or the true nature of being is concerned,
there are neither buddhas or demons.
He who frees himself from fear and hope, evil and virtue,
will realize the insubstantial and groundless nature of confusion.
Samsara will then appear as the mahamudra itself….

-Milarepa

OMMANIPADMEHUNG

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ls6P9tOYmdo
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Re: Ordaining as a monk or nun in the west

Postby undefineable » Thu Sep 12, 2013 10:09 pm

KonchokZoepa wrote:i think gloablly and karmically people pay taxes for the welfare of the system, its not theft, its a law, basically. of course you can view it as a theft but the tax money goes to the welfare of the people. so it can be viewed as generosity, dana, or it can be given bitterly thinking that the government is robbing from you when they are actually building roads, education, school , paying government and the social system workers theyre salaries, helping the people in need, wether a poor or a monastic. _ _ i dont have the answer to wether accepting government support when being a monk is a violation of the second precept or not.
Well I guess one's answer depends on where one has decided to stand vis-a-vis the old-fashioned capitalism v. socialism debate. However, Buddhadharma deals exclusively with matters beyond mere politics, so:
Nagarjuna wrote:"the Victorious ones have announced that emptiness is the relinquishing of all views,"
{ http://enlight.lib.ntu.edu.tw/FULLTEXT/ ... 04088.html }.

Maybe the answer is that there would be a clear violation in times and places whose culture specifically rejects socialism without specifically embracing Buddhism (e.g. the central and southern states of the US), and less of a clear violation when and where the majority are Buddhist (e.g. Thailand) and/or vote for particular parties knowing that their official objectives include concepts like 'social democracy' or 'mixed economy' (e.g. Scandinavia in the mid-20'th century if anyone's got the relevant data to hand). For Historical reasons, many Scots are also unlikely to have much of a problem with the idea of English taxpayers' money supporting monks and nuns (of any persuasion) in Scotland.

On the other hand, most westerners believe monasticism is wrong since it goes against everything their society and civilisation stand for - While many may be happy to help those too disabled to help themselves, most of those people would be horrified to discover their hard-earned cash supporting able-bodied and able-minded (that this is mandated on retreats was pointed out somwhere on Dharmawheel recently) monastics who provide the outside world with nothing apart from an insubstantial 'dharma' that they, on the other hand (as secular- or theistically- minded individuals), reject.

I also don't see why those who contribute more to a society shouldn't have proportionally more say in how it is run (meritocracy rather than democracy), and since most of us function -in only narrowly-varying degrees- as little more than bugs from the point of view of the elite who build, maintain and shape our world, those net contributors are unlikely to favour government spending on anything other than roads and security. Indeed, when and where have lay and monastic Buddhists seriously considered a welfare state for beings in the animal realm, whose activities could be compared to their own much as ours can be compared to those of Multinational's CEOs-? Maybe Ashoka aimed for this, but surely the whims of Emperors are necessarily capricious at best, and idiotic at worst-?
KonchokZoepa wrote:basically there is no intention of robbing, no action of robbing committed so where is the karma of theft.
The intention and action of taxing are also the intention and action of robbing because they involve taking what is not given without even asking permission.
Last edited by undefineable on Thu Sep 12, 2013 10:24 pm, edited 3 times in total.
"Removing the barrier between this and that is the only solution" {Chogyam Trungpa - "The Lion's Roar"}
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Re: Ordaining as a monk or nun in the west

Postby JKhedrup » Thu Sep 12, 2013 10:15 pm

i dont have the answer to wether accepting government support when being a monk is a violation of the second precept or not. basically there is no intention of robbing, no action of robbing committed so where is the karma of theft.


I would not say that it is a direct violation of the second precept according to my understanding of Vinaya. However, it is still problematic- at best a grey area, I cannot believe that there would not be any negative karma involved- especially if receiving the benefit requires one to be looking for work, but one meditates instead.

As much as I wish I could say it was no problem, I think it does bring up ethical issues.
In order to ensure my mind never comes under the power of the self-cherishing attitude,
I must obtain control over my own mind.
Therefore, amongst all empowerments, the empowerment that gives me control over my mind is the best,
and I have received the most profound empowerment with this teaching.
-Atisha Dipamkara
brtsal ba'i bkhra drin
JKhedrup
 
Posts: 2324
Joined: Wed May 30, 2012 8:28 am
Location: the Netherlands and India

Re: Ordaining as a monk or nun in the west

Postby undefineable » Thu Sep 12, 2013 10:28 pm

From your earlier post:
JKhedrup wrote:according to strict Vinaya monks cannot ask directly to laypeople for material offerings anyways, so you idea about restoring the original Sangha lifestyle is not in accord with the scriptures anyway. Monks in Thailand simply walk with their bowls and the laypeople call to them. If a monk were to approach a layperson and directly ask them for money for a retreat it would be inappropriate according to strict interpretations of the Vinaya.
So it looks like a question of 'legal loopholes' that -by definition- take no account of right and wrong.

One could go on to argue that since many lay Buddhists are bound to give alms only under the influence of heavy persuasion (i.e. being told it'll lead to better rebirths and seeing everyone else do the same), there is no morally pure Buddhist monasticism unless it functions more like the medieval Christian kind (but without the medieval Christianity!) by providing services that no-one in the 'host' society objects to it providing. Buddhist monasticism only really makes sense (to me atleast) as a collective investment that's paid off by "realised beings" at various levels actually helping laypeople progress towards enlightenment - whether through physical (e.g. the Burmese monasteries that were reported elsewhere on Dharmawheel as having protected Muslims from Buddhist fanatics), psychological, or supernatural means.
Last edited by undefineable on Thu Sep 12, 2013 10:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Removing the barrier between this and that is the only solution" {Chogyam Trungpa - "The Lion's Roar"}
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Re: Ordaining as a monk or nun in the west

Postby KonchokZoepa » Thu Sep 12, 2013 10:34 pm

well anyhow, this is happening in samye ling in scotland, and personally i think it is more than ok.

we live in a different times than what was 2500 years ago.
If the thought of demons
Never rises in your mind,
You need not fear the demon hosts around you.
It is most important to tame your mind within....

In so far as the Ultimate, or the true nature of being is concerned,
there are neither buddhas or demons.
He who frees himself from fear and hope, evil and virtue,
will realize the insubstantial and groundless nature of confusion.
Samsara will then appear as the mahamudra itself….

-Milarepa

OMMANIPADMEHUNG

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ls6P9tOYmdo
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Posts: 1358
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Re: Ordaining as a monk or nun in the west

Postby KonchokZoepa » Thu Sep 12, 2013 10:39 pm

JKhedrup wrote:
i dont have the answer to wether accepting government support when being a monk is a violation of the second precept or not. basically there is no intention of robbing, no action of robbing committed so where is the karma of theft.


I would not say that it is a direct violation of the second precept according to my understanding of Vinaya. However, it is still problematic- at best a grey area, I cannot believe that there would not be any negative karma involved- especially if receiving the benefit requires one to be looking for work, but one meditates instead.

As much as I wish I could say it was no problem, I think it does bring up ethical issues.


i dont know if you are required to look for work, or is it same as here in finland that you just get the social support even though you dont partake in the society.
If the thought of demons
Never rises in your mind,
You need not fear the demon hosts around you.
It is most important to tame your mind within....

In so far as the Ultimate, or the true nature of being is concerned,
there are neither buddhas or demons.
He who frees himself from fear and hope, evil and virtue,
will realize the insubstantial and groundless nature of confusion.
Samsara will then appear as the mahamudra itself….

-Milarepa

OMMANIPADMEHUNG

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ls6P9tOYmdo
KonchokZoepa
 
Posts: 1358
Joined: Tue Sep 10, 2013 9:50 pm

Re: Ordaining as a monk or nun in the west

Postby JKhedrup » Thu Sep 12, 2013 10:42 pm

The thing is the more oneM studies the Vinaya the more one realizes how black and white it is NOT. When one takes commentaries into account it can become even more confounding.

AFAIK, the only people living Vinaya to the letter are small pockets of forest monks in parts of Thailand, Burma and Sri Lanka.

As I remember the context of that thread was that instead of looking at alternative sources of funding for monastic ventures it would be better to "beg"- and going to people and directly ask for money.

My point was that this is actually a romanticization of "pure simple monks" that is actually not in accordance with strict monastic rules, so is in no way more noble than some of the other propositions that were made.

Some elucidation from Access to Insight should clarify this point:

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... .html#asia

The Buddha made it clear that bhikkhus should avoid begging if possible. (In times of great need a bhikkhu is allowed to ask for his basic requisites, for example, if his robes are stolen he may ask any lay person for one replacement robe.) He gave this story about 'begging':

A bhikkhu came to the Lord Buddha and complained about a great flock of noisy birds that came to roost at night in the forest surrounding his abode. The Buddha suggested that if he wanted them to go away he should go, many times throughout the night, and beg a feather from each bird. The birds, thinking, 'that monk wants a feather, and another, and another...,' left the forest and never returned. The Buddha then explained that begging and hinting were unpleasant even to common animals, how much more so to human beings.

A bhikkhu who is constantly begging for things displays his greedy state of mind. No one likes to see this, and lay supporters may start by criticizing him and then turn to blaming his Community or even the Buddha's Teaching. The Buddha, therefore, set down many rules to guide the bhikkhus about what is proper conduct.

How to Help a Bhikkhu — Invitation

Normally a bhikkhu will not ask for things. Instead, he will wait for something to be offered. This is exemplified in the alms round where the bhikkhu makes no request, does not even look at people, although he may quietly wait to see if an offering is to be made before moving on. One way that lay people enable a bhikkhu to ask them for help is by making an invitation or pavaara.naa. [58]

The Buddha allowed a bhikkhu to accept pavaara.naa or 'invitation.' Such an invitation is made when lay people decide to commit themselves to supplying medicines if a particular bhikkhu should ever become ill, or it can be a broader offer of help. (Although a sick monk is allowed to ask anyone for medicine, asking somebody who has already invited him with a pavaara.naa invitation is obviously preferable.) Therefore if lay people meet a bhikkhu who seems worthy of help and support, they may make such an invitation. Quite a number of the rules[59] deal with what and how much may be asked for when a donor makes this formal invitation.
In order to ensure my mind never comes under the power of the self-cherishing attitude,
I must obtain control over my own mind.
Therefore, amongst all empowerments, the empowerment that gives me control over my mind is the best,
and I have received the most profound empowerment with this teaching.
-Atisha Dipamkara
brtsal ba'i bkhra drin
JKhedrup
 
Posts: 2324
Joined: Wed May 30, 2012 8:28 am
Location: the Netherlands and India

Re: Ordaining as a monk or nun in the west

Postby JKhedrup » Thu Sep 12, 2013 10:44 pm

i dont know if you are required to look for work, or is it same as here in finland that you just get the social support even though you dont partake in the society


If this is really the case there is less to be concerned about. I know of one very strict Theravada Bhikkhu, you could almost say a Vinaya fundamentalist (he refuses to use bus tickets, for example- a layperson must submit the ticket to the driver for him), who is regarded pretty much as homeless by the UK government so he is given a flat, but of course due to his vows does not take any money. Lay people bring him food from time to time which he keeps only for the allowable period.
In order to ensure my mind never comes under the power of the self-cherishing attitude,
I must obtain control over my own mind.
Therefore, amongst all empowerments, the empowerment that gives me control over my mind is the best,
and I have received the most profound empowerment with this teaching.
-Atisha Dipamkara
brtsal ba'i bkhra drin
JKhedrup
 
Posts: 2324
Joined: Wed May 30, 2012 8:28 am
Location: the Netherlands and India

Re: Ordaining as a monk or nun in the west

Postby JKhedrup » Thu Sep 12, 2013 10:52 pm

So it looks like a question of 'legal loopholes' that -by definition- take no account of right and wrong


This is why you need a good scholar and commentary to really understand how Vinaya can function in a Mahayana context. It is a real shame important commentaries like Kunkyen Tsonawa's are not available in English.

I think certain vows within the Vinaya do take into account right and wrong, for example these worded according to the Tibetan Vinaya(from the website of HH Dalai Lama):

(DEFEATS/PARAJIKAS/DISROBING OFFENSES)
2. stealing; 3. homicide; and 4. lying speech- These are natural misdeeds, and can be taken as "moral guides" of right and wrong.

The first parajika however,
1. Unchasity is not a natural misdeed, but a proscribed misdeed. It is a training assist to monks and nuns- vital for reducing attachment as well as simplifying life for practice. It is considered so important that if one has sexual intercourse one must disrobe and cannot re-ordain in that life time.

The application and study of all these things takes years of experience - I wish I could share commentary with you from Tibetan Vinaya teachings I translated but the text is use restricted to only monastics, as is the common Tibetan custom.

HHDL says of monastic vows:

In particular the moral code of individual liberation is the essence of Buddha's teachings, such that it is said that wherever there is gelong, a holder of the Vinaya, there the teachings of Buddha abide and that place is not devoid of the Teacher himself.(2)

Lord Buddha himself says in the Vinaya Bases:

Wherever there is a gelong, a holder of the vinaya, that place is luminous; that place is illuminated. See that place as not devoid of me. I also abide unperturbed in that place.(3)
In order to ensure my mind never comes under the power of the self-cherishing attitude,
I must obtain control over my own mind.
Therefore, amongst all empowerments, the empowerment that gives me control over my mind is the best,
and I have received the most profound empowerment with this teaching.
-Atisha Dipamkara
brtsal ba'i bkhra drin
JKhedrup
 
Posts: 2324
Joined: Wed May 30, 2012 8:28 am
Location: the Netherlands and India

Re: Ordaining as a monk or nun in the west

Postby undefineable » Thu Sep 12, 2013 10:57 pm

(he) is regarded pretty much as homeless by the UK government so he is given a flat
That sounds far from 'fanatical', but then how could a comprehensive legal code like the Vinaya be 'black and white'?
"Removing the barrier between this and that is the only solution" {Chogyam Trungpa - "The Lion's Roar"}
undefineable
 
Posts: 499
Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2012 1:34 am

Re: Ordaining as a monk or nun in the west

Postby KonchokZoepa » Thu Sep 12, 2013 10:59 pm


A bhikkhu who is constantly begging for things displays his greedy state of mind. No one likes to see this, and lay supporters may start by criticizing him and then turn to blaming his Community or even the Buddha's Teaching. The Buddha, therefore, set down many rules to guide the bhikkhus about what is proper conduct.


this is a very interesting point. '' his greedy state of mind ''. but is it in every case concerning this matter greedy or is it really sincere wish to be able to do more committed and more worthwhile practice

i kinda felt like trying it maybe for a year but being a part of this conversation makes me think that should i go beg for money to be able to be a monk for a year and then see if for the rest of my life.
If the thought of demons
Never rises in your mind,
You need not fear the demon hosts around you.
It is most important to tame your mind within....

In so far as the Ultimate, or the true nature of being is concerned,
there are neither buddhas or demons.
He who frees himself from fear and hope, evil and virtue,
will realize the insubstantial and groundless nature of confusion.
Samsara will then appear as the mahamudra itself….

-Milarepa

OMMANIPADMEHUNG

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ls6P9tOYmdo
KonchokZoepa
 
Posts: 1358
Joined: Tue Sep 10, 2013 9:50 pm

Re: Ordaining as a monk or nun in the west

Postby JKhedrup » Thu Sep 12, 2013 11:01 pm

Let me clarify: I don't consider it fanatical for taking the flat- it is a smart move. I might well do the same in his situation!
What I considered fanatical was not using bus tickets for example, because he sees this as violating the precept for not touching money.

But- well, I do believe there is merit to keeping the discipline down to the letter. It is just REALLY difficult in a modern context and could produce many obstacles to being able to serve others.

but is it in every case concerning this matter greedy or is it really sincere wish to be able to do more committed and more worthwhile practice


It is a very difficult negotiation for all of us who try to be good monks while living in Western societies that are in many ways diametrically opposed to this sort of life in terms of how they are set up and most people within them think.

Even many Buddhists one encounters assume one is either a freeloader or unbalanced "crazy or lazy" is how a friend of mine attending an important Buddhist conference says Western Sangha were characterized by an important lay practitioner.

At the end of the day, one has to do one's best according to one's understanding (without of course violating the root vows)- and expect and accept that no matter what one does some will criticize it or find it lacking.
Last edited by JKhedrup on Thu Sep 12, 2013 11:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
In order to ensure my mind never comes under the power of the self-cherishing attitude,
I must obtain control over my own mind.
Therefore, amongst all empowerments, the empowerment that gives me control over my mind is the best,
and I have received the most profound empowerment with this teaching.
-Atisha Dipamkara
brtsal ba'i bkhra drin
JKhedrup
 
Posts: 2324
Joined: Wed May 30, 2012 8:28 am
Location: the Netherlands and India

Re: Ordaining as a monk or nun in the west

Postby KonchokZoepa » Thu Sep 12, 2013 11:04 pm

i couldnt do it like you told me he does, it would just seem too insane and absolutely absurd. :juggling: especially bus tickets and that kinda stuff, too extreme.
If the thought of demons
Never rises in your mind,
You need not fear the demon hosts around you.
It is most important to tame your mind within....

In so far as the Ultimate, or the true nature of being is concerned,
there are neither buddhas or demons.
He who frees himself from fear and hope, evil and virtue,
will realize the insubstantial and groundless nature of confusion.
Samsara will then appear as the mahamudra itself….

-Milarepa

OMMANIPADMEHUNG

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ls6P9tOYmdo
KonchokZoepa
 
Posts: 1358
Joined: Tue Sep 10, 2013 9:50 pm

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