Boy chosen by Dalai Lama turns back on Buddhist order

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Boy chosen by Dalai Lama turns back on Buddhist order

Postby retrofuturist » Mon Jun 01, 2009 2:12 am

Greetings,

Boy chosen by Dalai Lama turns back on Buddhist Order
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/ma ... ita-torres

Dale Fuchs in Madris wrote:As a toddler, he was put on a throne and worshipped as by monks who treated him like a god. But the boy chosen by the Dalai Lama as a reincarnation of a spiritual leader has caused consternation – and some embarrassment – for Tibetan Buddhists by turning his back on the order that had such high hopes for him.

Instead of leading a monastic life, Osel Hita Torres now sports baggy trousers and long hair, and is more likely to quote Jimi Hendrix than Buddha.

Yesterday he bemoaned the misery of a youth deprived of television, football and girls. Movies were also forbidden – except for a sanctioned screening of The Golden Child starring Eddie Murphy, about a kidnapped child lama with magical powers. "I never felt like that boy," he said.

He is now studying film in Madrid and has denounced the Buddhist order that elevated him to guru status. "They took me away from my family and stuck me in a medieval situation in which I suffered a great deal," said Torres, 24, describing how he was whisked from obscurity in Granada to a monastery in southern India. "It was like living a lie," he told the Spanish newspaper El Mundo. Despite his rebelliousness, he is still known as Lama Tenzin Osel Rinpoche and revered by the Buddhist community. A prayer for his "long life" still adorns the website of the Foundation to Preserve the Mahayana Tradition, which has 130 centres around the world. The website features a biography of the renegade guru that gushes about his peaceful, meditative countenance as a baby. In Tibetan Buddhism, a lama is one of a lineage of reincarnated spiritual leaders, the most famous of which is the Dalai Lama.

According to the foundation biography, another leader suspected Torres was the reincarnation of the recently deceased Lama Yeshe when he was only five months old. In 1986, at 14 months, his parents took him to see the Dalai Lama in Dharamsala, India. The toddler was chosen out of nine other candidates and eventually "enthroned".

At six, he was allowed to socialise only with other reincarnated souls – though for a time he said he lived next to the actor Richard Gere's cabin.

By 18, he had never seen couples kiss. His first disco experience was a shock. "I was amazed to watch everyone dance. What were all those people doing, bouncing, stuck to one another, enclosed in a box full of smoke?"


Metta,
Retro. :)
Live in concord, with mutual appreciation, without disputing, blending like milk and water, viewing each other with kindly eyes

Dhamma Wheel (Theravada forum) * Here Comes Trouble
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Re: Boy chosen by Dalai Lama turns back on Buddhist order

Postby thornbush » Mon Jun 01, 2009 2:32 am

Shucks retro :tongue: you beat me to it again.....in posting this one :pig:
Looks like the dear lama is more into samsara than liberation but hey...he's only 24 :D
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/ma ... ita-torres
"I was amazed to watch everyone dance. What were all those people doing, bouncing, stuck to one another, enclosed in a box full of smoke?
Beats me! :rolleye:
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Re: Boy chosen by Dalai Lama turns back on Buddhist order

Postby Drolma » Mon Jun 01, 2009 1:54 pm

message from osel hita.jpg
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Re: Boy chosen by Dalai Lama turns back on Buddhist order

Postby Ngawang Drolma » Mon Jun 01, 2009 4:08 pm

Thanks Drolma :namaste:
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Re: Boy chosen by Dalai Lama turns back on Buddhist order

Postby Luke » Mon Jun 01, 2009 5:25 pm

Well, there's certainly nothing wrong with quoting Jimi Hendrix....Maybe he'll find his way back to spirituality through music. He doesn't seem to specifically hate Buddhism; he just hated living like a monk. Perhaps someone should tell him about ngakpas (Nyingma married yogis).
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Re: Boy chosen by Dalai Lama turns back on Buddhist order

Postby David N. Snyder » Mon Jun 01, 2009 8:32 pm

Are Tulkus considered to be enlightened or near enlightened in Vajrayana Buddhism? If not, perhaps that could explain some of Osel's behavior recently. If he is considered to be just another worldling with some beginning insights and progress, I suppose some erratic behavior is possible.

Maybe he will return to his position at a later date when he sees lay life is not all its cracked up to be too.
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Re: Boy chosen by Dalai Lama turns back on Buddhist order

Postby David N. Snyder » Mon Jun 01, 2009 8:36 pm

Luke wrote:Well, there's certainly nothing wrong with quoting Jimi Hendrix....

I always liked his, "excuse me, while I kiss the sky."

I know most people see it as hallucinogenic, but it can also mean the spiritual . . .
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Re: Boy chosen by Dalai Lama turns back on Buddhist order

Postby Ngawang Drolma » Mon Jun 01, 2009 9:08 pm

TheDhamma wrote:Are Tulkus considered to be enlightened or near enlightened in Vajrayana Buddhism? If not, perhaps that could explain some of Osel's behavior recently. If he is considered to be just another worldling with some beginning insights and progress, I suppose some erratic behavior is possible.

Maybe he will return to his position at a later date when he sees lay life is not all its cracked up to be too.


Hi TheDhamma,

Thank you for your question :)

I think Dazzle's words address your question in a very nice, concise manner:

Dazzle wrote:This is not just the case for lamas. The Bodhisattva vow is taken by everyone involved with Tibetan Buddhism. A tulku may also be someone who was considered to be a high level bodhistattva previously as well as someone who was enlightened.
A tulku isn't necessarily expected to remember his or her last lifetime. If a tulku can't remember, they'll happily say 'No'. I have never heard of a tulku being said to have his/her previous personality either.

Its also the case that some tulkus leave instructions where to find their next incarnation before they die.

Kind regards,

Dazzle


I hope that helps. The general idea is that a tulku is able to navigate the bardo of death due to accumulation of wisdom and merit, and takes rebirth intentionally for the benefit of sentient beings.

Best,
Laura
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Re: Boy chosen by Dalai Lama turns back on Buddhist order

Postby David N. Snyder » Mon Jun 01, 2009 9:49 pm

Luke wrote:Well, there's certainly nothing wrong with quoting Jimi Hendrix....

I also liked Jimi Hendrix's rendition of the Star Spangled Banner at Woodstock. " and the rockets red glare . . . " well, you know the rest. :thumbsup:
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Re: Boy chosen by Dalai Lama turns back on Buddhist order

Postby David N. Snyder » Mon Jun 01, 2009 9:53 pm

Ngawang Drolma wrote:I hope that helps. The general idea is that a tulku is able to navigate the bardo of death due to accumulation of wisdom and merit, and takes rebirth intentionally for the benefit of sentient beings.

Hi Laura,

Thanks. But is a Tulku considered to be at a certain "level" from his past lives and insights? For example, in Theravada there is the "first stage" of Stream-entrant, second stage of Once-Returner, third stage of Non-Returner, and then the Arahant. Are Tulkus considered to be at least at some high level, near full enlightenment? Or perhaps enlightened, but with the Bodhisattva vow, so Nirvana is not an option / issue?

Or can a Tulku also be an ordinary worldling?
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Re: Boy chosen by Dalai Lama turns back on Buddhist order

Postby Ngawang Drolma » Tue Jun 02, 2009 12:32 am

Hi TheDhamma,

In Mahayana, there are 10 Bhumis, or stages to Buddhahood. Here is the list:


*10 Bhumis to Buddhahood. [Sanskrit/Pali for plane, storey or level].

The realization of Emptiness, shunyata, is the goal. Therefore, the bhumis are the consequences of virtue-in-action. The bhumis are also interpreted as reflecting the 3 kayas or levels of "reality."
Two sutras which discuss the bhumis: Dasabhumi (Sutra of Ten Bhumis) and Samadhi-nirmochana (Explaining Profound Secrets.)

Chandrakirti, in the Bodhisattva-Avatara Shastra explains:

0. The Foundation: Beings in samsara [the 6 realms] having generated the aspiration to climb the Bodhisattva Bhumis by practicing the 6 paramitas.

Now we proceed through 3 stages on the Path of Accumulation and 3 more stages on the Path of Unification:

1. "The Joyous": Having tasted shunyata [emptiness], we are joyous. Here, the main practice is to perfect the Generosity Paramita. You might be born as a King in the Human Realm and have lots of chances to practice generosity! Now on the Path of Seeing, we can start the Path of Meditation.

2. "The Stainless": At this bhumi, the main practice is the perfection of Shila [discipline of vows] because of which you are free of anxiety and the 3 Poisons [negative tendencies, obscurations]. You might be born as a chakravartin (King bearing the noble marks of an emperor, like Siddartha Gautama Shakya), whose power and enjoyment are challenged by the practice of discipline and precept-keeping.

3. "The Luminous": Here, we try to perfect Patience or equanimity. This is the source of the luminosity. You might be born as Indra, King of gods, who is called Shakra, -- opposer of the Ashuras.

4. "The Radiant": After the 3rd Bhumi, the Nirmanakaya aspect of Buddhahood has been perfected. But there are two more Kayas, therefore, the Paramita to perfect here is that of Exertion. This activity in the service of virtue creates a radiance of wisdom which burns away false conceptions. Here, you might be reborn as Shyama, a deity in the "Continuous Peaceful Realm").

5. "The Unconquerable": Driven by exertion, you perfect
dhyana [meditation] and other skillful means in preparation for the helping of all sentient beings. The word unconquerable refers to both the difficulty of achieving the state of dhyani and the state of the being having now achieved this goal. Now it is possible to be born as a god in the Tushita Heavens where you can observe the Six Realms and the interplay of dharmas.

6. "The Manifest": The intense practice of dhyana and other skills enables you to be reborn as a God-king who can manifest miraculous activity. The Paramita of Prajna is to be perfected.

7. "The Gone-Afar": Having perfected the Six Paramitas, we now possess both wisdom and skill. This is a plateau below which you will not fall, but there is still room for effort.

In the 10 Paramita system, the perfection is that of Skillful Means needed to overcome Mara who provides opportunities for others to act in opposition.

It is said that once the 7th Bhumi is attained, the Buddhas prophesy concerning your achieving Buddhahood, and will indicate your Buddha-Name and circumstances.

In a former life, Lord Shakyamuni received this prophecy after having presented 4 golden flowers to the Buddha of that aeon .

8. "The Immovable": At the Eighth Bhumi, you can enter Nirvana at the snap of a finger; so Tathagatas come and click you out of it, reminding you of your aspiration and the work still ahead. But they cannot force you to remain, therefore the virtue is that of firmness of Aspiration.

You might be reborn as Brahma, Lord of the Universe.

9. "The Good-Wisdom": Almost ready for Buddhabood, you practice the acquisition of the Ten Powers and Six Supernatural Powers. You might also be reborn as Brahma.

10. "The Dharma-Cloud": All the Buddhas and Bodhisattvas rejoice in your elation at having attained Buddhahood completely. Primordial awareness [dhyani/jnana] clears away whatever subtle defilements and tendencies might still be retained. You, like Lord Maitreya in the Tushita Heavens, await your turn. This is also the beginning of the Path of Non-Meditation.

Finally, Buddhahood.

Source


I don't know if there is one particular place on this path in which all tulkus could be placed. But certainly to have gained the merit and wisdom to deliberately navigate the bardo in order to fullfill the bodhisattva vows, someone is certainly on the path.

Some tulkus, such as His Holiness the Dalai Lama is believed to be an emanation of a bodhisattva called Chenrezig. He is the embodiment of compassion. A bodhisattva such as Chenrezig forgoes nirvana until all beings have been liberated.

There are practitioners within Vajrayana who don't necessarily believe that all tulkus have realizations. Some people feel this is open to opinion. So I'm sorry, I can't give an entirely cut and dry answer. But I hope this helped.

Best,
Laura

:namaste:
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Re: Boy chosen by Dalai Lama turns back on Buddhist order

Postby David N. Snyder » Tue Jun 02, 2009 3:30 am

Ngawang Drolma wrote:There are practitioners within Vajrayana who don't necessarily believe that all tulkus have realizations. Some people feel this is open to opinion. So I'm sorry, I can't give an entirely cut and dry answer. But I hope this helped.

Hi Laura,

Yes, that helps, thanks.

On another note, I suppose there is always the possibility that the "search" committee got it wrong and that Osel Torres is not the rebirth of the famous Rinpoche (Yeshe, I think).

I think I have heard that there have been occasions where the search committee corrected some errors in the past, one that was about 20 years after choosing someone.
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Re: Boy chosen by Dalai Lama turns back on Buddhist order

Postby Ngawang Drolma » Tue Jun 02, 2009 3:33 am

Hi TheDhamma,

It has happened! It may not be a fool-proof system :)
There's also a political structure and long history of the tulku tradition in politics in Tibet to be considered as part of the picture. I'll share with you my personal belief. I believe that some tulkus are the real deal. And I think some are born into the right family.

I'm sorry if that annoys anyone, but it is my honest perspective.

Best,
Laura
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Re: Boy chosen by Dalai Lama turns back on Buddhist order

Postby Drolma » Tue Jun 02, 2009 1:47 pm

Luke wrote:Well, there's certainly nothing wrong with quoting Jimi Hendrix....Maybe he'll find his way back to spirituality through music.


Lama Yeshe and Lama Zopa used The Rolling Stones song- "Satisfaction" in one of their teachings about the eight worldly dharmas and the shortcomings of attachment- Lama Zopa said The Rolling Stones were giving a Dharma teaching when they sang, "Can't get no Satisfaction" - :tongue:
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Re: Boy chosen by Dalai Lama turns back on Buddhist order

Postby Luke » Tue Jun 02, 2009 3:57 pm

TheDhamma wrote:
Luke wrote:Well, there's certainly nothing wrong with quoting Jimi Hendrix....

I always liked his, "excuse me, while I kiss the sky."

I know most people see it as hallucinogenic, but it can also mean the spiritual . . .


I know what you mean! In Vajrayana terms, that line from "Purple Haze" is like "the union of bliss and emptiness." Jimi certainly wasn't lacking in the bliss department, but I wonder if he understood emptiness...

"Voodoo Child" is my favorite Hendrix song:
If I dont meet you no more in this world then, uh
I'll meet ya in the next one
And don't be late!


Rock on!
(Ack! There's no headbang emoticon! Well, I guess I'll just have to kidnap this hippie to get the job done. :quoteunquote: This guy in the hat is pretty cool too. :sage: )

Ngawang Drolma wrote:Hi TheDhamma, I'll share with you my personal belief. I believe that some tulkus are the real deal. And I think some are born into the right family. I'm sorry if that annoys anyone, but it is my honest perspective.

Yes, I believe that many tulkus are real as well. For me, it's not much of a stretch to think that H.H. the Dalai Lama is relying on wisdom which he accumulated over many past lifetimes.

To reply to TheDhamma's question, I'm not sure if all tulkus are thought to be high up in the bhumis, but I know that many people think that they learn Buddhist philosopy and advanced medition techniques much more quickly than others because they've done it before in past lives. So if they dedicate themselves to practice, they attain higher levels of realization faster in this life because they're simply very good at doing Buddhist practices.
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Re: Boy chosen by Dalai Lama turns back on Buddhist order

Postby Ngawang Drolma » Tue Jun 02, 2009 4:44 pm

Am I allowed to say that Jimmy Hendrix hurts my ears?

:guns:
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Re: Boy chosen by Dalai Lama turns back on Buddhist order

Postby Luke » Tue Jun 02, 2009 7:05 pm

Ngawang Drolma wrote:Am I allowed to say that Jimmy Hendrix hurts my ears?

:guns:


Aah, but the guitar god that is Jimi Hendrix has many moods, many flavors.... For his gentler side, you might try listening to his songs "Little Wing" and "Hey Joe."
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Re: Boy chosen by Dalai Lama turns back on Buddhist order

Postby Eternal Spirit » Tue Jun 02, 2009 8:40 pm

Dear Ngawang Drolma

Castles Made of Sand.

Image

She who sees the present dhammas,
Direct and clear, just as they are,
Is unshakeable, immovable, secure.
They should accumulate such moments.

Buddha


She who does not see the present dhammas,
Direct and clear, just as they are,
Is shakeable, movable, insecure.
Her destiny is hell.

Eternal Spirit


Down the street you can hear her scream you're a disgrace
As she slams the door in his drunken face
And now he stands outside
And all the neighbors start to gossip and drool
He cries oh, girl you must be mad,
What happened to the sweet love you and me had?
Against the door he leans and starts a scene,
And his tears fall and burn the garden green

And so castles made of sand fall in the sea, eventually

A little Indian brave who before he was ten,
Played war games in the woods with his Indian friends
And he built up a dream that when he grew up
He would be a fearless warrior Indian Cheif
Many moons past and more the dream grew strong until
Tomorrow he would sing his first war song and fight his first battle
But something went wrong, surprise attack killed him in his sleep that night

And so castles made of sand melts into the sea, eventually

There was a young girl, who's heart was a frown
Cause she was crippled for life,
And she couldn't speak a sound
And she wished and prayed she could stop living,
So she decided to die
She drew her wheelchair to the edge of the shore
And to her legs she smiled you wont hurt me no more
But then a sight she'd never seen made her jump and say
Look a golden winged ship is passing my way

And it really didn't have to stop, it just kept on going...

And so castles made of sand slips into the sea, eventually

Jimi Hendrix
Castles Made Of Sand lyrics
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Re: Boy chosen by Dalai Lama turns back on Buddhist order

Postby Drolma » Tue Jun 02, 2009 9:39 pm

storm in a tea cup.jpg
Tempest in a tea-cup
storm in a tea cup.jpg (22.15 KiB) Viewed 1154 times


You may have heard the news about Osel Hita Torres, the recognized tulku of Lama Yeshe, that has been circulating around the globe in sensationalized tabloid form. Our friends at Sunspace covered it here.

It turns out that Osel had a friendly, informative, and intimate interview in Babylon Magazine, a Madrid-based Spanish cultural magazine.

Here are a couple of quotes from the original article that tell a different story than that portrayed in the Guardian and elsewhere:

“Osel gets emotional when he sees the Dalai Lama take the floor. If Buddhas really exist. He would be one of them. He is an enlightened one.”

The article continues with:

“The responsibility of teaching has always weighed on him. His heart tells him that for the moment he should learn. The literal translation of lama is teacher, and I’m no teacher. A good lama is a person for whom it doesn’t matter what others think about him, and who thinks about others before thinking about himself. That, to me, is being a lama, a good person.”

You can see for yourself by reading the original Babylon Magazine interview here (starting on page 56) how a story can be distorted to achieve maximum news “noise”.


http://gobeyondwords.wordpress.com/2009/06/02/tempest-in-a-teapot/

http://www.magazinebabylon.com/BabylonMagazine5.pdf
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