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PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 4:59 pm 
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I heard Chogyal Namkhai Norbu say in the webcast today that if one talks about rigpa to non practitioners one is breaking samaya.Im just trying to understand what he meant.If one tells a loved one or a friend what they are practicing and goes into a little detail wouldn't this be harmless. Wouldn't it be of some benefit for another to hear the sanity of it all?


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 6:09 pm 
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duffster1 wrote:
I heard Chogyal Namkhai Norbu say in the webcast today that if one talks about rigpa to non practitioners one is breaking samaya.Im just trying to understand what he meant.If one tells a loved one or a friend what they are practicing and goes into a little detail wouldn't this be harmless. Wouldn't it be of some benefit for another to hear the sanity of it all?


No, you talk about the teacher, the marvels of the Dzogchen lineage and teachings. But discussing what direct introduction is might do harm. I think he explained pretty good.

That said, me any many others have actually discussed these matters here and on other forums, regretfully.

/magnus

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 12:42 am 
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duffster1 wrote:
I heard Chogyal Namkhai Norbu say in the webcast today that if one talks about rigpa to non practitioners one is breaking samaya.Im just trying to understand what he meant.If one tells a loved one or a friend what they are practicing and goes into a little detail wouldn't this be harmless. Wouldn't it be of some benefit for another to hear the sanity of it all?


Generally speaking, one keeps these things private. Not like clandestine private where it's like you're hiding something... Just similar to how you wouldn't go blabbing about your sex life with your partner to people outside the relationship. You're not hiding it, but it's not for others' ears. That kinda thing. In my experience, the more we share about our practice with others--especially those not connected to the transmission--the more the progress of our practice dissipates. It also has a way of causing us to objectify and conceptualize our meditative experiences and grasp onto them. I suppose the latter two points wouldn't be so once one had reached a certain level of stability in instant presence, but at least until then we are very much in dualism vision, as Rinpoche says, so we're subject to that vision's consequences.

But I think talking about Dzogchen in a general way, to someone you've determined seems interested, like explaining something like the fact that we all have primordially pure nature fully -endowed with beneficial qualities, but that this nature is temporarily obscured by ignorance, and that only non-conceptual direct experience can allow us to awaken to the knowledge of that true nature and purify that ignorance... I general statements like these are fine if the person shows interest. And if they want to know how one goes about such a non-conceptual meditation, then you explain that it's best if one hears about it from someone with thorough experience of this path and let them know they can tune in to Rinpoche's webcasts if they like.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 7:06 am 
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heart wrote:

That said, me any many others have actually discussed these matters here and on other forums, regretfully.

/magnus


True, but we also have to considere that ChNN's webcasts are (for most) open, with peoples making the choice to see them. And it's the same for such forum we use to talk between "us", most choose to be their ... so there is no moquery or such type of destructives energies. But it's right we better no do it.

S

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 9:22 am 
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In any case talking about rigpa to those who have not discovered (here I mean Dharma practitioners, in my experience, specifically kagyu and nyingma) it will lead nowhere, they won´t believe you. They will insist that it is difficult to recognize the nature of the mind, that it is somewhere far away, that it can be seen only by those who have spent years in retreat, that rigpa cannot be recalled in times of difficulty which one can encounter living an ordinary life etc. So what´s the point in talking about rigpa to the others? Unless they discover it for themselves hearing about it will not help them. People usually take the defeated stand as described above or they confuse some experiences for rigpa and then they go around and announce to everybody that they have discovered rigpa :D. I learned from my own experience that it is better not to talk about it.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 8:15 pm 
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heart wrote:
That said, me any many others have actually discussed these matters here and on other forums, regretfully.

/magnus


I agree with Magnus, and personally I feel deeply sad about it.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 11:31 pm 
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dzoki wrote:
They will insist that it is difficult to recognize the nature of the mind, that it is somewhere far away, that it can be seen only by those who have spent years in retreat, that rigpa cannot be recalled in times of difficulty which one can encounter living an ordinary life etc.


This is sadly sooo true. This attitude is very prevalent. Even if it were kosher to talk about one's experiences [which it's not], to even hint that one had even the slightest clue what rigpa really is would arouse the highest suspicion.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 7:39 pm 
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The first rule about Dzogchen is, we don't talk about Dzogchen.

:spy:

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2014 2:28 pm 
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Discussion on "Unity's theory of the nature of mind" split to here

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2014 5:09 pm 
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Sherab Dorje wrote:
Discussion on "Unity's theory of the nature of mind" split to here


Thanks, it had to be done ...

Sönam

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By understanding everything you perceive from the perspective of the view, you are freed from the constraints of philosophical beliefs.
By understanding that any and all mental activity is meditation, you are freed from arbitrary divisions between formal sessions and postmeditation activity.
- Longchen Rabjam -


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2014 10:09 am 
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Sherab Dorje wrote:
Discussion on "Unity's theory of the nature of mind" split to here


The fish always stinks from the head. Maybe it's better for the invisible reader out there, to close this subforum forever, because it just creates confusion. Here is no Dzogchen to find. Really bad times for tibet.


Last edited by thigle on Mon Apr 28, 2014 10:21 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2014 10:21 am 
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Pema Rigdzin wrote:
dzoki wrote:
They will insist that it is difficult to recognize the nature of the mind, that it is somewhere far away, that it can be seen only by those who have spent years in retreat, that rigpa cannot be recalled in times of difficulty which one can encounter living an ordinary life etc.


This is sadly sooo true. This attitude is very prevalent. Even if it were kosher to talk about one's experiences [which it's not], to even hint that one had even the slightest clue what rigpa really is would arouse the highest suspicion.



Quite correctly usually.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2014 10:33 am 
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We can now expect a small flurry of replies from those who have a view based on their feeling excluded, but have not received ' Pointing Out '. :popcorn:


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