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Did the Buddha experience dukkha? - Page 7 - Dhamma Wheel

Did the Buddha experience dukkha?

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
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kirk5a
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Re: Did the Buddha experience dukkha?

Postby kirk5a » Wed Apr 11, 2012 3:00 am

"When one thing is practiced & pursued, ignorance is abandoned, clear knowing arises, the conceit 'I am' is abandoned, latent tendencies are uprooted, fetters are abandoned. Which one thing? Mindfulness immersed in the body." -AN 1.230

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retrofuturist
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Re: Did the Buddha experience dukkha?

Postby retrofuturist » Wed Apr 11, 2012 3:45 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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reflection
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Re: Did the Buddha experience dukkha?

Postby reflection » Wed Apr 11, 2012 6:58 am

Last edited by reflection on Wed Apr 11, 2012 5:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Cafael Dust
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Re: Did the Buddha experience dukkha?

Postby Cafael Dust » Wed Apr 11, 2012 10:27 am

Not twice, not three times, not once,
the wheel is turning.

Sarva
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Re: Did the Buddha experience dukkha?

Postby Sarva » Wed Apr 11, 2012 11:35 am

It appears to me from reading these sutta above that the practice must be renewed or refreshed with each arising of dukkha. Through impermanence and anatta there is no way to establish a constant unbound self, rather the unbinding and nibbana is a way out once found, but it is not constant, even for the Buddha?
“Both formerly & now, it is only stress that I describe, and the cessation of stress.” — SN 22:86

santa100
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Re: Did the Buddha experience dukkha?

Postby santa100 » Wed Apr 11, 2012 1:12 pm

Sarva wrote:
"It appears to me from reading these sutta above that the practice must be renewed or refreshed with each arising of dukkha. Through impermanence and anatta there is no way to establish a constant unbound self, rather the unbinding and nibbana is a way out once found, but it is not constant, even for the Buddha?"

I think this is the main difference between the Buddha versus us: He has perfect and total control over his mental factors. The conceit of I, mine, and myself have been eradicated and so there's no need for Him to "renew the practice" every time for it has become second nature. For un-enlightened beings, we still have to make conscious efforts every moment because the "self" has not been transcended, "anatta" has not been penetrated. For every painful feeling that arises, we still have to make a conscious effort to see that there's no self. To the Buddha and His arhant disciples, it's all second nature for them. The physical pain is still there because the five aggregates are still there, but there's no Sidharta Gautama to suffer..

Sarva
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Re: Did the Buddha experience dukkha?

Postby Sarva » Wed Apr 11, 2012 1:53 pm

“Both formerly & now, it is only stress that I describe, and the cessation of stress.” — SN 22:86

santa100
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Re: Did the Buddha experience dukkha?

Postby santa100 » Wed Apr 11, 2012 2:09 pm

Hi Sarva, actually there's no contradiction between the Silavant Sutta (http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html ) and the Indriya-bhavana Sutta (http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html ) because it's all about "control". We as un-enlightened beings have either absolutely no control or so little control of our mental factors. The arahant has total control over them. Notice the last sentence of SN 22.122:
"Although, for an arahant, there is nothing further to do, and nothing to add to what has been done, still these things — when developed & pursued — lead both to a pleasant abiding in the here-&-now and to mindfulness & alertness."

Sarva
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Re: Did the Buddha experience dukkha?

Postby Sarva » Wed Apr 11, 2012 2:38 pm

“Both formerly & now, it is only stress that I describe, and the cessation of stress.” — SN 22:86

Cafael Dust
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Re: Did the Buddha experience dukkha?

Postby Cafael Dust » Wed Apr 11, 2012 2:41 pm

Not twice, not three times, not once,
the wheel is turning.

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Alex123
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Re: Did the Buddha experience dukkha?

Postby Alex123 » Wed Apr 11, 2012 3:51 pm

"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."

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Alex123
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Re: Did the Buddha experience dukkha?

Postby Alex123 » Wed Apr 11, 2012 4:09 pm

Last edited by Alex123 on Wed Apr 11, 2012 8:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."

santa100
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Re: Did the Buddha experience dukkha?

Postby santa100 » Wed Apr 11, 2012 5:05 pm

Alex123 wrote:
"Question: If arahant has no dukkha, then why escape into the state called "pleasant abiding in the here-&-now" ?"

There's no need for the arahant to "escape into" anything. If we read the entire paragraph again:
"Although, for an arahant, there is nothing further to do, and nothing to add to what has been done, still these things — when developed & pursued — lead both to a pleasant abiding in the here-&-now and to mindfulness & alertness"

think of the Math professor and his students analogy. The students HAVE to learn and solve the math homeworks because they HAVE to. They'll flunk if they don't. The Math professor can keep doing the math homeworks for fun, that's his "pleasant abiding in the here and now" OR he doesn't have to. He has total "control" because he already got his degree..

Cafael Dust
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Re: Did the Buddha experience dukkha?

Postby Cafael Dust » Wed Apr 11, 2012 5:12 pm

Last edited by Cafael Dust on Wed Apr 11, 2012 5:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Not twice, not three times, not once,
the wheel is turning.

YouthThunder
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Re: Did the Buddha experience dukkha?

Postby YouthThunder » Wed Apr 11, 2012 5:26 pm

I remember from somewhere that the Buddha used words that are a bit harsh against Sati(I think that is his name) because Sati is not repentent for spreading misinterpreted/false teachings,so the question is if the Buddha is already fully enlightened,is it necessary for him to do that ?

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Alex123
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Re: Did the Buddha experience dukkha?

Postby Alex123 » Wed Apr 11, 2012 7:25 pm

"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."

Cafael Dust
Posts: 194
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2009 2:55 pm

Re: Did the Buddha experience dukkha?

Postby Cafael Dust » Wed Apr 11, 2012 7:31 pm

One does not breathe to bring oneself to life.
Not twice, not three times, not once,
the wheel is turning.

Sarva
Posts: 209
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Re: Did the Buddha experience dukkha?

Postby Sarva » Wed Apr 11, 2012 7:33 pm

“Both formerly & now, it is only stress that I describe, and the cessation of stress.” — SN 22:86

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Aloka
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Re: Did the Buddha experience dukkha?

Postby Aloka » Wed Apr 11, 2012 8:25 pm


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retrofuturist
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Re: Did the Buddha experience dukkha?

Postby retrofuturist » Wed Apr 11, 2012 10:51 pm

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine


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