Rainbow Body - Why?

[heart]

I just realized what I missed in this one sane and boring year without e-sangha!
you can never have these kind of arguments with Dharmafriends in the real world, everybody would just feel totally ridiculous.

/magnus

[Pema Rigdzin]

I am not talking about my own practice here. I am talking about how the development stage is practiced in the Nyingma.

/magnus

So, are you saying that all of the Nyingma are practicing the three samadhis ? Do you not count yourself as belonging to the Nyingma ? Are you not also saying that those who recite the texts without the attainment of the three samadhis are not Nyingma ? Possibly there is then something before the development stage in the Nyingma, what is it called ? Or in the Pre-Nyingma?

The three samadhis are part of the instructions for practicing any Nyingma inner tantric sadhana. Actually, the three samadhis are probably the most fundamental instruction in Nyingma inner tantra. Anyone who is not practicing their Nyingma inner tantric sadhana in this way is either very new to the practice and kind of jumping into it before he/she has been completely instructed, or has not paid attention to the teachings he/she's received. Simple as that. It doesn't necessarily have a thing to do with attainment. One will start out with a more or less contrived, conceptual approach to it but will eventually approach it from knowledge of rigpa (if one thoroughly understands how to properly practice, practices regularly and thoroughly, and one keeps one's samayas, etc).

[Aemilius]

I am not talking about my own practice here. I am talking about how the development stage is practiced in the Nyingma.

/magnus

So, are you saying that all of the Nyingma are practicing the three samadhis ? Do you not count yourself as belonging to the Nyingma ? Are you not also saying that those who recite the texts without the attainment of the three samadhis are not Nyingma ? Possibly there is then something before the development stage in the Nyingma, what is it called ? Or in the Pre-Nyingma?

I just wanted to make it clear that I wasn't discussing my personal practice and my own experiences in meditation but that my discussion is based on what I generally been taught by many teachers and read in many books. I personally count myself as Chökyi Nyima Rinpoches student not as member of any particular lineage. But yes, I do practice the three samadhis. If you have "attainment of the three samadhis" you are a very excellent practitioner indeed. I never said that someone that don't "attainment of the three samadhis are not a Nyingma", I don't know where you got that from? I said that the three samadhis is the framework for the development stage in all sadhanas in the Nyingma. I would like to add on second thought that this is just true for the inner tantras.

/magnus

Thank you, Your Honour, no further questions.

[heart]

Thank you, Your Honour, no further questions.

Your are most welcome your majesty.

/magnus

[Malcolm]

Even Namdrol who is very well learned to a certain degree did not have insight into Dzogchen, so he opened that Dzogchen forum to get informed.

For the record, that is not why I opened the Dzogchen forum on E-Sangha.

I opened the Dzogchen forum on E-Sangha because there are practitioners of Dzogchen in Sakya, Kagyu, Gelug, Nyingma and Bon who, at the time seemed to need a place to discuss things separate from the Nyingma forum

The Dzogchen forum was closed because the discussion was becoming completely dominated by people from Dzogchen Community.

The Bon forum was closed primarily because one: the narrative histories of Bon and Buddhism in Tibet are largely incompatible with each other, despite many doctrinal similarities, and two: E-Sangha was a Pan-Buddhist Web site.



N

[Mr. G]

Thanks for dropping by Namdrol! You're always welcome here, don't be a stranger.

And update your Sakya blog more often! There's a lack of information out there for us Sakyapas!

[heart]

N

Nice to see you again big N!

/magnus

[Pero]

N

Nice to see you again big N!

Yes.

[Pema Rigdzin]

N

Nice to see you again big N!

Yes.

Yeah, very good to see you, Namdrol. Looking forward to your participation here.

[Ngawang Drolma]

Here's hoping that Namdrol will post more here!

[Ashocka]

Urgyen Tulku says in his book Repeating the Words of Buddha that when somebody attains the rainbow body then simultaneously 2000 people attain enlightenment.

I have heard something similar by one highly respected lama. He said there was a special liberating effect caused by attaining rainbow body that had a profound liberating effect on other sentient beings. I also got the feeling he was saying this not just as some casual information, but as an inspiration to aspire to that path of practice, as it is also highly suitable for those who have the capacity to achieve high realization but do not have much karmic connection for outer bodhisattva activity in this lifetime.

Maybe I've missed something here in Narraboth's answer but I still don't see the use of dissolving the physical body into rainbow lights besides its obvious miraculous nature that can inspire faith. Also, if we go into the land of wonders, bodhisattvas are capable of all kinds of magic transforming themselves into virtually anything, including buddhas. And that ability is available to a large number of gods, demons and yogis too. So, again, what is so special about the rainbow body that it can be an argument for the superiority of dzogchen?

Honestly there's much more to the significance of rainbow body that is only going to be explained in the context of teachings on togal which explain how wisdom and the 5 elements have yet to be totally liberated in clear light before the fruition of that level of practice (the 4th of the "four visions"). Dzogchen mengagde teaches that even the fruition of trekchod is not quite complete and does not result in the maximum ability to benefit beings (although one's own benefit is completely achieved and a very immense benefit to others is as well, obviously). For people like us, though, I think Narraboth's example of being like ants trying to estimate which skyscraper above us is taller is quite appropriate, even if it is interesting to talk about.

I think there is something quite significant to the ja lü that Pema Rigdzin points to here, that needs more elucidation to understand its profoundity.