ChNN's Yantra yoga: Transmission or no transmission?

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Re: Celibacy

Postby Dronma » Sat Aug 03, 2013 5:14 pm

Lhug-Pa wrote:The Dzogchen Community of Chögyal Namkhai Norbu has two public books and two or three public DVD's available on Yantra Yoga (Bairo 'Khrul 'Khor); and one doesn't need Transmission in order to practice Yantra Yoga and have some excellent relative benefits. :thumbsup:


It is true that some of the books and DVDs about Yantra Yoga are in the public section of SSI webstore. However, it is necessary for someone to have received in advance, at least, the Guruyoga Transmission from Rinpoche, in order to practice the Pranayamas and the advanced Yantras. Only the preliminary practices are open to all. This I know from Laura Evangelisti during a Yantra Yoga course I followed personally.
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Re: Celibacy

Postby Lhug-Pa » Sat Aug 03, 2013 5:41 pm

Hi Dronma,

I was under the impression that anything from the following (new) book and two DVD's can be practiced without Transmission:

http://www.yantrayoga.org/tibetan-yoga- ... available/

http://www.yantrayoga.org/store3/books/ ... ntra-yoga/

That is because the above (new) book and two DVD's don't show any of the advanced Pranayama's etc.
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Re: Celibacy

Postby Motova » Sun Aug 04, 2013 4:18 pm

Dronma wrote:
Lhug-Pa wrote:The Dzogchen Community of Chögyal Namkhai Norbu has two public books and two or three public DVD's available on Yantra Yoga (Bairo 'Khrul 'Khor); and one doesn't need Transmission in order to practice Yantra Yoga and have some excellent relative benefits. :thumbsup:


It is true that some of the books and DVDs about Yantra Yoga are in the public section of SSI webstore. However, it is necessary for someone to have received in advance, at least, the Guruyoga Transmission from Rinpoche, in order to practice the Pranayamas and the advanced Yantras. Only the preliminary practices are open to all. This I know from Laura Evangelisti during a Yantra Yoga course I followed personally.


Lhug-Pa wrote:Hi Dronma,

I was under the impression that anything from the following (new) book and two DVD's can be practiced without Transmission:

http://www.yantrayoga.org/tibetan-yoga- ... available/

http://www.yantrayoga.org/store3/books/ ... ntra-yoga/

That is because the above (new) book and two DVD's don't show any of the advanced Pranayama's etc.


I have Yantra Yoga: The Tibetan Yoga of Movement, am I able to practice this without transmission?
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Re: Celibacy

Postby Dronma » Sun Aug 04, 2013 5:14 pm

Motova wrote:
Dronma wrote:
Lhug-Pa wrote:The Dzogchen Community of Chögyal Namkhai Norbu has two public books and two or three public DVD's available on Yantra Yoga (Bairo 'Khrul 'Khor); and one doesn't need Transmission in order to practice Yantra Yoga and have some excellent relative benefits. :thumbsup:


It is true that some of the books and DVDs about Yantra Yoga are in the public section of SSI webstore. However, it is necessary for someone to have received in advance, at least, the Guruyoga Transmission from Rinpoche, in order to practice the Pranayamas and the advanced Yantras. Only the preliminary practices are open to all. This I know from Laura Evangelisti during a Yantra Yoga course I followed personally.


Lhug-Pa wrote:Hi Dronma,

I was under the impression that anything from the following (new) book and two DVD's can be practiced without Transmission:

http://www.yantrayoga.org/tibetan-yoga- ... available/

http://www.yantrayoga.org/store3/books/ ... ntra-yoga/

That is because the above (new) book and two DVD's don't show any of the advanced Pranayama's etc.


I have Yantra Yoga: The Tibetan Yoga of Movement, am I able to practice this without transmission?


For practicing Yantra Yoga it is necessary to follow a course with an authorized instructor. For people without any experience, it is not so easy to understand everything while watching the DVDs or reading the books. Those materials (books and DVDs) are very useful as reminders. There are many little details which are crucial for the correct practice. Especially the Pranayamas need the help and oral explanation of experienced instructors.
Laura told us that even for the first Pranayama is required the Ati Guruyoga Transmission from Rinpoche.
For further questions, please contact the principal YY instructors Fabio and Laura.

PS. There is the DVD "BREATHE: THE PERFECT HARMONY" which is very good for balancing the energy, and it does not require any transmission:
http://www.yantrayoga.org/store3/dvds/breathe-the-perfect-harmony-of-breathing/
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Re: Celibacy

Postby Motova » Sun Aug 04, 2013 8:11 pm

Dronma wrote:For practicing Yantra Yoga it is necessary to follow a course with an authorized instructor. For people without any experience, it is not so easy to understand everything while watching the DVDs or reading the books. Those materials (books and DVDs) are very useful as reminders. There are many little details which are crucial for the correct practice. Especially the Pranayamas need the help and oral explanation of experienced instructors.
Laura told us that even for the first Pranayama is required the Ati Guruyoga Transmission from Rinpoche.
For further questions, please contact the principal YY instructors Fabio and Laura.

PS. There is the DVD "BREATHE: THE PERFECT HARMONY" which is very good for balancing the energy, and it does not require any transmission:
http://www.yantrayoga.org/store3/dvds/breathe-the-perfect-harmony-of-breathing/


So what's the big difference between Hatha Yoga and Yantra Yoga? Why can I practice one without transmission and not the other?
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Re: Celibacy

Postby Lhug-Pa » Sun Aug 04, 2013 8:21 pm

Dronma wrote:There is no mass level of "our" practice. Someone can talk only about himself/herself.
My teacher suggests to male practitioners who aspire to practice liberation through sensation that they should never loose their pure essence (sperm).
And as far as I know, he is not the only teacher who is giving this advice.
However, who is capable to follow his advice and who is not, is a totally different story... ;)


Agreed.

And the way that this is understood, is explained a little differently in say Kalachakra versus Dzogchen for example.

But as you know, it would probably be inappropriate to go into details about that here.

And as you also know is why it is best to have a qualified Teacher(s) of whom to ask these types of questions and learn from.


Dronma wrote:
Motova wrote:
Dronma wrote:It is true that some of the books and DVDs about Yantra Yoga are in the public section of SSI webstore. However, it is necessary for someone to have received in advance, at least, the Guruyoga Transmission from Rinpoche, in order to practice the Pranayamas and the advanced Yantras. Only the preliminary practices are open to all. This I know from Laura Evangelisti during a Yantra Yoga course I followed personally.

Lhug-Pa wrote:Hi Dronma,

I was under the impression that anything from the following (new) book and two DVD's can be practiced without Transmission:

http://www.yantrayoga.org/tibetan-yoga- ... available/

http://www.yantrayoga.org/store3/books/ ... ntra-yoga/

That is because the above (new) book and two DVD's don't show any of the advanced Pranayama's etc.

I have Yantra Yoga: The Tibetan Yoga of Movement, am I able to practice this without transmission?

For practicing Yantra Yoga it is necessary to follow a course with an authorized instructor. For people without any experience, it is not so easy to understand everything while watching the DVDs or reading the books. Those materials (books and DVDs) are very useful as reminders. There are many little details which are crucial for the correct practice. Especially the Pranayamas need the help and oral explanation of experienced instructors.
Laura told us that even for the first Pranayama is required the Ati Guruyoga Transmission from Rinpoche.
For further questions, please contact the principal YY instructors Fabio and Laura.

PS. There is the DVD "BREATHE: THE PERFECT HARMONY" which is very good for balancing the energy, and it does not require any transmission:
http://www.yantrayoga.org/store3/dvds/breathe-the-perfect-harmony-of-breathing/


Chögyal Namkhai Norbu wrote: This book presents what we call the Open Level of Yantra Yoga and covers the basic practice of Yantra that anyone can apply with a little training and good will. This is my intention and my hope in opening Yantra Yoga to the world.


Which means that it is okay to practice without Transmission anything in the book quoted from here (i.e. the new book The Art and Practice of Yantra Yoga). This book does not contain everything mind you (only the Open Level of Yantra Yoga as the Chögyal wrote), but it is very detailed in what it does contain, and is a very good & worthwhile start.

Also, I don't see why the basic Rhythmic Breathing (not the full Four Profound Applications) practice from the public DVD's wouldn't be okay to practice without Transmission.

Of course every authentic book or media on Yantra Yoga mentions somewhere that one should receive Transmission and Instructions in order to have the full benefits of Yantra Yoga and to be able to practice everything within It.
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Re: Celibacy

Postby Lhug-Pa » Sun Aug 04, 2013 8:54 pm

Motova wrote:So what's the big difference between Hatha Yoga and Yantra Yoga? Why can I practice one without transmission and not the other?


Because Yantra Yoga is overall much more dynamic than Hatha Yoga.


gregkavarnos wrote:Well, I am under no delusions. I am under the impression that I still haven't found the right ladder yet.


Nor am I. Well I'm quite sure that I've found the right ladder; and, be that as it may, this is still me:


Image


gregkavarnos wrote:
Lhug-Pa wrote:Well not quite correctly, as it is the opposite there regarding the seasons. And I'd actually posted a link to that very post of Malcolm's on page three of this thread.
Oooops! I stand corrected! Thanks for pointing that out!


You're welcome.

:anjali:
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Re: ChNN's Yantra yoga: Transmission or no transmission?

Postby Lhug-Pa » Sun Aug 04, 2013 9:00 pm

Chögyal Namkhai Norbu wrote: This book presents what we call the Open Level of Yantra Yoga and covers the basic practice of Yantra that anyone can apply with a little training and good will. This is my intention and my hope in opening Yantra Yoga to the world.

Lhug-Pa wrote:Which means that it is okay to practice without Transmission anything in the book quoted from here (i.e. the new book The Art and Practice of Yantra Yoga). This book does not contain everything mind you (only the Open Level of Yantra Yoga as the Chögyal wrote), but it is very detailed in what it does contain, and is a very good & worthwhile start.

Also, I don't see why the basic Rhythmic Breathing (not the full Four Profound Applications) practice from the public/unrestricted DVD's wouldn't be okay to practice without Transmission.

Of course every authentic book or media on Yantra Yoga mentions somewhere that one should receive Transmission and Instructions in order to have the full benefits of Yantra Yoga and to be able to practice everything within It.


Better to not try to practice the advanced Pranayama's from the older (2008) big Yantra Yoga book without first receiving Transmission and Instructions.
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Re: Celibacy

Postby Dronma » Sun Aug 04, 2013 9:00 pm

Lhug-Pa wrote:Agreed.

And the way that this is understood, is explained a little differently in say Kalachakra versus Dzogchen for example.

But as you know, it would probably be inappropriate to go into details about that here.

And is why it is best to have a qualified Teacher(s) of whom to ask these types of questions and learn from.

Of course, no details included. But it is good to spread the message that Vajrayana Buddhism and Taoism (these are the systems I know, maybe there are more), they teach that male practitioners should be vigilant for not loosing their sperm. There are certain reasons for this, and I agree that a qualified teacher is absolutely necessary.

Lhug-Pa wrote:
Chögyal Namkhai Norbu wrote:This book presents what we call the Open Level of Yantra Yoga and covers the basic practice of Yantra that anyone can apply with a little training and good will. This is my intention and my hope in opening Yantra Yoga to the world.

This is the very new book, which I don't have it yet. If Rinpoche mentions that no transmission is required, then it is fine.

Lhug-Pa wrote:Also, I don't see why the basic Rhythmic Breathing (not the full Four Profound Applications) practice from the DVD's wouldn't be okay to practice without Transmission.

Rhythmic Breathing is the preparation for Kumbhaka. I guess there is no reason for someone to practice Rhythmic Breathing as a monkey, without really knowing what is going on.

Lhug-Pa wrote:Of course every authentic book or media on Yantra Yoga mentions somewhere that one should receive Transmission and Instructions in order to have the full benefits of Yantra Yoga and to be able to practice everything within It.

:twothumbsup:
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Re: ChNN's Yantra yoga: Transmission or no transmission?

Postby Motova » Sun Aug 04, 2013 9:22 pm

Ok so do I have to buy the new book? Or can I use the old one and just not practice the pranayama for each series?
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Re: ChNN's Yantra yoga: Transmission or no transmission?

Postby WmBainbridge » Fri Aug 09, 2013 4:45 am

When the stuff is taught by authorized teachers, they'll frequently do up through the Eight Movements for everyone, but anything past that requires transmission. On the other hand, if you can buy it on amazon.com, chances are you won't be struck by lightening if you try to practice it, since that decision had to come from Rinpoche. The thing is, it's awfully hard to know if you're doing it right unless you've learned it through an authorized teacher. If you ever get a chance to get kumbhaka from Fabio, you'll know exactly what that means. Some things come through doing the practice as it's described, and some things come through transmission. Both can have value, but both together is the ideal.

Rinpoche teaches Mandarava a lot as a long-life practice, but he makes the point when he does that the real goal of any practice is realization. That's more true with Yantra than many other things. Learn Yantra, learn kumbhaka, familiarize yourself with the natural state.
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Re: ChNN's Yantra yoga: Transmission or no transmission?

Postby dakini_boi » Fri Aug 09, 2013 9:26 pm

Motova wrote:Ok so do I have to buy the new book? Or can I use the old one and just not practice the pranayama for each series?


Of course.

Also, the dvd's are for public consumption, and they contain the basic movements in series 1-5, so it must be that they can be done without transmission.
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Re: ChNN's Yantra yoga: Transmission or no transmission?

Postby padma norbu » Wed Sep 04, 2013 9:43 pm

I'm not really interested in yantra yoga, but I am interestd in pranayama. Does it take a really long time and lots of breathing to have any effect. I see fairly strong statements that it is a practice that will definitely bring you to the state of ati (or something... I forgot and can't google it right now). But, in the Pure Land forum, I saw someone said it didn't really do much for him. I figure there is either a way to breathe that does something very noticeable and which is so potentially dangerous that it is secret (which is what I want to learn)... or it's actually more about how good you are at visualizing channels and focusing for long periods of time on your breathing before you notice anything remotely different from the ordinary about how you feel and your awareness.
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Re: Celibacy

Postby Malcolm » Wed Sep 04, 2013 10:18 pm

It is true that some of the books and DVDs about Yantra Yoga are in the public section of SSI webstore. However, it is necessary for someone to have received in advance, at least, the Guruyoga Transmission from Rinpoche, in order to practice the Pranayamas and the advanced Yantras. Only the preliminary practices are open to all. This I know from Laura Evangelisti during a Yantra Yoga course I followed personally.



Actually, all the yantras can now be practiced as well as some of the pranayamas by people without having had transmission from the Boss.

What you say used to be the case, but that has now changed.
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Re: Celibacy

Postby Dronma » Thu Sep 05, 2013 8:56 pm

Malcolm wrote:Actually, all the yantras can now be practiced as well as some of the pranayamas by people without having had transmission from the Boss.

What you say used to be the case, but that has now changed.


I don't think so, since I heard lately with my own ears Laura to explain what I have already written here.

PS. I don't like the expression "Boss" when we talk about Rinpoche.
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Re: ChNN's Yantra yoga: Transmission or no transmission?

Postby Lhug-Pa » Thu Sep 05, 2013 9:31 pm

Here it is made quite clear that anything within the following book (including the Tsadul Pranayama) can be practiced without Transmission:


Chögyal Namkhai Norbu wrote: This book presents what we call the Open Level of Yantra Yoga and covers the basic practice of Yantra that anyone can apply with a little training and good will. This is my intention and my hope in opening Yantra Yoga to the world.


This implies that the Four Profound Applications Breathing from the public DVD's is for the Public Level as well (which—as far as it is presented on the DVD's—doesn't even reach the Minor Kumbhaka; but even so, there must be some benefit from it otherwise it would have been pointless to include in the DVD's), since the public DVD's are of the Open Level of Yantra Yoga as explained above by Rinpoche.
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Re: ChNN's Yantra yoga: Transmission or no transmission?

Postby Malcolm » Thu Sep 05, 2013 9:42 pm

Lhug-Pa wrote:Here it is made quite clear that anything within the following book (including the Tsadul Pranayama) can be practiced without Transmission:


Chögyal Namkhai Norbu wrote: This book presents what we call the Open Level of Yantra Yoga and covers the basic practice of Yantra that anyone can apply with a little training and good will. This is my intention and my hope in opening Yantra Yoga to the world.


This also implies that the Four Profound Applications Breathing from the public DVD's (which doesn't even reach Minor Kumbhaka, but even so there must be some benefit from it otherwise it would have been pointless to include in the DVD's), since the public DVD's are of the Open Level of Yantra Yoga as explained above by Rinpoche.



This book contains:

"Table of Contents:
What is Yantra Yoga?; The Uniqueness of Yantra Yoga; Advice for Practice; Warm-ups; The Nine Purification Breathings; The Five Exercises for Loosening the Joints; The Eight Movements to Purify the Prana; The Five Exercises to Control the Channels; The Five Main Groups of Yantras: The First Group; The Second Group; The Third Group; The Fourth Group; The Fifth Group; The Vajra Wave to Eliminate Obstacles"

As I said, all the yantras apart from the seven lotuses.
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Re: ChNN's Yantra yoga: Transmission or no transmission?

Postby Lhug-Pa » Thu Sep 05, 2013 10:00 pm

Right, including two Pranayamas (I believe there are a total of seven or eight) hence your previous mentioning of being able to practice only some of the Pranayamas for the Public Level of Yantra Yoga:

1) The Nine Purification Breathings and 2) the Tsadul Pranayama, for the Public Level of Yantra Yoga; plus I think a third Pranayama since it is included in the public DVD's with instructions, as I'd said:


Lhug-Pa wrote:This implies that the Four Profound Applications Breathing from the public DVD's is for the Public Level as well (which—as far as it is presented on the DVD's—doesn't even reach the Minor Kumbhaka; but even so, there must be some benefit from it otherwise it would have been pointless to include in the DVD's), since the public DVD's are of the Open Level of Yantra Yoga as explained above by Rinpoche.
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Re: Celibacy

Postby dzogchungpa » Fri Sep 06, 2013 9:13 pm

Dronma wrote:I don't like the expression "Boss" when we talk about Rinpoche.

I believe there is a scene in "My Reincarnation" where Yeshi Namkhai refers to Rinpoche as "the boss".
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Re: Celibacy

Postby Malcolm » Fri Sep 06, 2013 9:37 pm

dzogchungpa wrote:
Dronma wrote:I don't like the expression "Boss" when we talk about Rinpoche.

I believe there is a scene in "My Reincarnation" where Yeshi Namkhai refers to Rinpoche as "the boss".


Yes, many of us refer to ChNN as "the boss" on a regular basis. He is our boss.
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