Dharma Wheel

A Buddhist discussion forum on Mahayana and Vajrayana Buddhism
It is currently Mon Dec 22, 2014 1:53 pm

All times are UTC [ DST ]


Forum rules


Please click here to view the forum rules



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 83 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 4:32 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Oct 30, 2011 5:50 pm
Posts: 29
I love the Riwo Sangcho practice alot too. It is easy to practice. The wordings is Dzogchen. It solves many problems related to karmic debt without creating new problems etc...

But I have read about merit of offering pretas..and then I start to like Sur offering also. The sutras say that offering to pretas is like saving their lifes, the merit is similar to offering to all Buddhas and Bodhisattva in the ten directions. Well...I read it somewhere. There is a specific Mahayana sutra preaching the merit of offering pretas.

So...actually, does the Riwo Sangcho offering satisfy the pretas, the way Sur offering satisfy them?

When we burn 3 white and 3 sweets, but are really reciting the Riwo Sangcho liturgy, do these pretas and bardo beings get to smell the burnt food and get benefits from it? If so, then Riwo Sangcho seems to include the merit of Sur offering. am I right or wrong?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 4:43 pm 
Offline
Former staff member
User avatar

Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 9:27 pm
Posts: 10289
Location: Greece
WeiHan wrote:
I love the Riwo Sangcho practice alot too. It is easy to practice. The wordings is Dzogchen. It solves many problems related to karmic debt without creating new problems etc...

But I have read about merit of offering pretas..and then I start to like Sur offering also. The sutras say that offering to pretas is like saving their lifes, the merit is similar to offering to all Buddhas and Bodhisattva in the ten directions. Well...I read it somewhere. There is a specific Mahayana sutra preaching the merit of offering pretas.

So...actually, does the Riwo Sangcho offering satisfy the pretas, the way Sur offering satisfy them?

When we burn 3 white and 3 sweets, but are really reciting the Riwo Sangcho liturgy, do these pretas and bardo beings get to smell the burnt food and get benefits from it? If so, then Riwo Sangcho seems to include the merit of Sur offering. am I right or wrong?
Riwo... satisfies all classes of beings.

_________________
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 4:49 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Oct 30, 2011 5:50 pm
Posts: 29
==


Last edited by WeiHan on Wed Sep 04, 2013 4:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 4:50 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Oct 30, 2011 5:50 pm
Posts: 29
WeiHan wrote:
Sherab Dorje wrote:
WeiHan wrote:
I love the Riwo Sangcho practice alot too. It is easy to practice. The wordings is Dzogchen. It solves many problems related to karmic debt without creating new problems etc...

But I have read about merit of offering pretas..and then I start to like Sur offering also. The sutras say that offering to pretas is like saving their lifes, the merit is similar to offering to all Buddhas and Bodhisattva in the ten directions. Well...I read it somewhere. There is a specific Mahayana sutra preaching the merit of offering pretas.

So...actually, does the Riwo Sangcho offering satisfy the pretas, the way Sur offering satisfy them?

When we burn 3 white and 3 sweets, but are really reciting the Riwo Sangcho liturgy, do these pretas and bardo beings get to smell the burnt food and get benefits from it? If so, then Riwo Sangcho seems to include the merit of Sur offering. am I right or wrong?
Riwo... satisfies all classes of beings.


Sur satisfies all classes of beings also and also include offering the Triple gems and 3 roots..So what is their difference?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 5:09 pm 
Offline
Former staff member
User avatar

Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 9:27 pm
Posts: 10289
Location: Greece
I don't do Sur, so I don't really know, but I was under the impression that is was done specifically for hungry ghosts (preta).

_________________
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 5:49 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu May 05, 2011 3:10 am
Posts: 128
WeiHan wrote:
Hi,

I am wondering if the Shechen red box incense can be used for doing Riwo Sangcho practices?


Yes.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 8:20 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Dec 25, 2010 9:19 pm
Posts: 612
Location: Lafayette, CO
If your intention is to specifically feed pretas and those in the bardo, do sur.

When Khandro Kamala, Chatral Rinpoche's Sangyum, was in the U.S. earlier this summer (and last summer as well), She did several different sang-chods followed by several different sur-chods followed by Protectors offerings each morning. During the sang, She made sure the fire was burning with visible flames. During sur, She made sure there were no visible flames but that there was a steady column of smoke. Also, She put somewhat different offerings in each.

IOW, these two practices each have their specific intentions and strong points. They are not identical and interchangeable. Of course, "If all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail." IMHO, if you specifically want to feed pretas and/or those in the bardo, receive transmission for sur. Pretty much any Lama can transmit this, and there are many, many short sur liturgies that are convenient and easy to do.

BTW, Lama Acharya Dawa Choddak will be in Boulder, CO Nov. 8-13. Among the teachings He will be giving, one night He will teach specifically on Riwo Sang-chod and another night He will be teaching on Barched Kunsel Nor-lha (Wealth Deity) Sang. I will post more information on these events in the Events section when I get more details.

:anjali:

_________________
Pema Chophel པདྨ་ཆོས་འཕེལ


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 3:26 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Oct 30, 2011 5:50 pm
Posts: 29
Kunzang wrote:
WeiHan wrote:
Hi,

I am wondering if the Shechen red box incense can be used for doing Riwo Sangcho practices?


Yes.


Thanks for your confirmation.

I know most incense will do. even just Juniper alone will do. However, I am concern that some incense may contain thing like guggul (myrrh) that has the effect of driving spirits or hungry ghosts away making it unsuitable for practices like Riwo sangcho and Sur especially.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 3:28 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Oct 30, 2011 5:50 pm
Posts: 29
pemachophel wrote:
If your intention is to specifically feed pretas and those in the bardo, do sur.

When Khandro Kamala, Chatral Rinpoche's Sangyum, was in the U.S. earlier this summer (and last summer as well), She did several different sang-chods followed by several different sur-chods followed by Protectors offerings each morning. During the sang, She made sure the fire was burning with visible flames. During sur, She made sure there were no visible flames but that there was a steady column of smoke. Also, She put somewhat different offerings in each.

IOW, these two practices each have their specific intentions and strong points. They are not identical and interchangeable. Of course, "If all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail." IMHO, if you specifically want to feed pretas and/or those in the bardo, receive transmission for sur. Pretty much any Lama can transmit this, and there are many, many short sur liturgies that are convenient and easy to do.

BTW, Lama Acharya Dawa Choddak will be in Boulder, CO Nov. 8-13. Among the teachings He will be giving, one night He will teach specifically on Riwo Sang-chod and another night He will be teaching on Barched Kunsel Nor-lha (Wealth Deity) Sang. I will post more information on these events in the Events section when I get more details.

:anjali:


Thanks for the valuable info.

My guess is Sang is offering the smoke wheareas Sur is offering the aroma of the food.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 4:13 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2010 8:23 pm
Posts: 152
WeiHan wrote:
My guess is Sang is offering the smoke wheareas Sur is offering the aroma of the food.


that's what i've heard and how i understand it. personally i do riwo sangcho every morning and sur every evening - i really enjoy both practices :)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 4:32 am 
Offline
Former staff member
User avatar

Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2011 7:09 am
Posts: 2940
Location: Space is the Place
WeiHan wrote:
Kunzang wrote:
WeiHan wrote:
Hi,

I am wondering if the Shechen red box incense can be used for doing Riwo Sangcho practices?


Yes.


Thanks for your confirmation.

I know most incense will do. even just Juniper alone will do. However, I am concern that some incense may contain thing like guggul (myrrh) that has the effect of driving spirits or hungry ghosts away making it unsuitable for practices like Riwo sangcho and Sur especially.


yeah guggul is not ideal. actually, to do riwo sang cho you should really have some "mother sang" powder which includes a number of essential ingredients like 5 color cloths, 3 sweets 3 whites, medicinal herbs, etc. you can mix a small amount of this in with a larger mix of juniper or sage, etc. to make it last. there are some "riwo sang cho" incense sticks that contain trace "mother sang" ingredients but most normal incense you get will not have it. You can get a mother sang powder mix herehttp://www.tibetantreasures.com/product.cgi?product=4135&group=84 or herehttp://www.dharmaware.com/incense&herbs.html note the latter also sells the riwo sang cho sticks made by Dakpa Tamdin

_________________
Contentment is the ultimate wealth;
Detachment is the final happiness. ~Sri Saraha


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 5:15 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Oct 30, 2011 5:50 pm
Posts: 29
Adamantine wrote:

yeah guggul is not ideal. actually, to do riwo sang cho you should really have some "mother sang" powder which includes a number of essential ingredients like 5 color cloths, 3 sweets 3 whites, medicinal herbs, etc. you can mix a small amount of this in with a larger mix of juniper or sage, etc. to make it last. there are some "riwo sang cho" incense sticks that contain trace "mother sang" ingredients but most normal incense you get will not have it. You can get a mother sang powder mix herehttp://www.tibetantreasures.com/product.cgi?product=4135&group=84 or herehttp://www.dharmaware.com/incense&herbs.html note the latter also sells the riwo sang cho sticks made by Dakpa Tamdin


My guess is, but I drag to say it, that riwo sangcho usually requires a big fire and it will cost a bomb if one were to use expensive wood like sandal wood which better incense will conatin a larger quantity. Thus most Riwo sangcho incense and powder has a larger composition of filler wood like Juniper and Cypress and more prized incense will only be recommended for indoor offering to Buddha purpose and not outdoor, big quantity purpose like Riwo Sangcho.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 5:40 am 
Offline
Former staff member
User avatar

Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2011 7:09 am
Posts: 2940
Location: Space is the Place
WeiHan wrote:
Adamantine wrote:

yeah guggul is not ideal. actually, to do riwo sang cho you should really have some "mother sang" powder which includes a number of essential ingredients like 5 color cloths, 3 sweets 3 whites, medicinal herbs, etc. you can mix a small amount of this in with a larger mix of juniper or sage, etc. to make it last. there are some "riwo sang cho" incense sticks that contain trace "mother sang" ingredients but most normal incense you get will not have it. You can get a mother sang powder mix herehttp://www.tibetantreasures.com/product.cgi?product=4135&group=84 or herehttp://www.dharmaware.com/incense&herbs.html note the latter also sells the riwo sang cho sticks made by Dakpa Tamdin


My guess is, but I drag to say it, that riwo sangcho usually requires a big fire and it will cost a bomb if one were to use expensive wood like sandal wood which better incense will conatin a larger quantity. Thus most Riwo sangcho incense and powder has a larger composition of filler wood like Juniper and Cypress and more prized incense will only be recommended for indoor offering to Buddha purpose and not outdoor, big quantity purpose like Riwo Sangcho.


The mother sang mixes have a decent proportion of precious substances, not just sandalwoods. even precious metals, etc. But that is why you dilute the mother sang in a larger mixture of juniper, or cypress, as you say. You do not need a big fire to do riwo sang cho, although a large offering is great when you have the time and space. But you can do it as a daily offering, on a small scale with just a little charcoal circle like the kind you would buy for use in a hooka.
Put that in a vessel of metal and pour the sang mixture on top, sprinkle with the bumpa water and you are all set for a daily sang routine.

And Riwo Sang Cho is really meant as a vast offering to all the realms of beings, if you just offer one stick of incense, it really is not so generous. Although, offering a single stick of the highest quality incense to one's shrine in the morning may be wonderful, when doing a sang offering if using incense sticks then you should not offer less than three so as to generate sufficient offering smoke.

_________________
Contentment is the ultimate wealth;
Detachment is the final happiness. ~Sri Saraha


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 6:30 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Oct 30, 2011 5:50 pm
Posts: 29
Adamantine wrote:

And Riwo Sang Cho is really meant as a vast offering to all the realms of beings, if you just offer one stick of incense, it really is not so generous. Although, offering a single stick of the highest quality incense to one's shrine in the morning may be wonderful, when doing a sang offering if using incense sticks then you should not offer less than three so as to generate sufficient offering smoke.


Beside taking longer time to setup, the charcoal is actually more expensive than the incense or powder.

I find a website to buy very cheap incense but it has to be in bulk.

http://www.creativehandnepal.com/shop.p ... ct_id=3725

Looking at the low price compare to other shops, you can't help but conclude that middleman has strip off a huge percentage of the profit.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 6:50 am 
Offline
Former staff member
User avatar

Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 9:27 pm
Posts: 10289
Location: Greece
Don't buy the charcoal from a head shop, go to a Greek grocery store. They should be infiinitely cheaper there. Here in Greece, I buy them from the supermarket.

I was just wondering about the use of sage. American Sage is burnt for cleansing and purifying by American Indians, so I imagine that means it has the capacity to dispel (like myrrh/guggul). Wouldn't that render it unfit for use in a sang given we wish to attract/invite all beings to the offering?

_________________
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 7:19 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Oct 30, 2011 5:50 pm
Posts: 29
Sherab Dorje wrote:
Don't buy the charcoal from a head shop, go to a Greek grocery store. They should be infiinitely cheaper there. Here in Greece, I buy them from the supermarket.

I was just wondering about the use of sage. American Sage is burnt for cleansing and purifying by American Indians, so I imagine that means it has the capacity to dispel (like myrrh/guggul). Wouldn't that render it unfit for use in a sang given we wish to attract/invite all beings to the offering?


Any online shop recommendation for charcoal?

Is there sage in Riwo Incense?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 9:31 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2010 8:23 pm
Posts: 152
this site has a good price (i think) on swiftlite charcoal - http://www.spiritualscents.com/p-126-sw ... 0roll.aspx

though it's only a good deal if you live in the US due to shipping costs. unfortunately i live in Canada so the shipping costs are too high to make a purchase of charcoal worth it. :smile:


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 10:47 am 
Offline
Former staff member
User avatar

Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2011 7:09 am
Posts: 2940
Location: Space is the Place
WeiHan wrote:
Adamantine wrote:

And Riwo Sang Cho is really meant as a vast offering to all the realms of beings, if you just offer one stick of incense, it really is not so generous. Although, offering a single stick of the highest quality incense to one's shrine in the morning may be wonderful, when doing a sang offering if using incense sticks then you should not offer less than three so as to generate sufficient offering smoke.


Beside taking longer time to setup, the charcoal is actually more expensive than the incense or powder.

I find a website to buy very cheap incense but it has to be in bulk.

http://www.creativehandnepal.com/shop.p ... ct_id=3725

Looking at the low price compare to other shops, you can't help but conclude that middleman has strip off a huge percentage of the profit.


That is "Kur Sur" powdered incense, not "Riwo Sang Cho" mix. I am not sure why you think they are comparable, I thought I did a decent job of explaining the precious ingredients in Riwo Sang Cho mother-mixes, which obviously you would not find cheap, even if you made it yourself from scratch! Don't confuse it with other various types of powdered incense. Using the wrong substances for Riwo Sang Cho could bring opposite results than desired. For instance, I have a friend who was using some kind of incense powder from a Santeria shop in her home. Who knows what was in that. I noticed there were little plastic gold sequins mixed in. Burning plastic or other toxic-to-the-environment substances will only upset the Mamos and other classes of beings.....

_________________
Contentment is the ultimate wealth;
Detachment is the final happiness. ~Sri Saraha


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 10:50 am 
Offline
Former staff member
User avatar

Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2011 7:09 am
Posts: 2940
Location: Space is the Place
Sherab Dorje wrote:
Don't buy the charcoal from a head shop, go to a Greek grocery store. They should be infiinitely cheaper there. Here in Greece, I buy them from the supermarket.

I was just wondering about the use of sage. American Sage is burnt for cleansing and purifying by American Indians, so I imagine that means it has the capacity to dispel (like myrrh/guggul). Wouldn't that render it unfit for use in a sang given we wish to attract/invite all beings to the offering?


Sage is often used in traditional Riwo Sang Cho mixes, it's one of the listed ingredients to include. It purifies in the way that Juniper purifies. It does not dispel, like Guggul. Sage is also used as an offering by Native Americans.. but (as an aside)so is tobacco, which us Nyingmas would not ever use for offering. I would not confuse the traditions, anyway.

_________________
Contentment is the ultimate wealth;
Detachment is the final happiness. ~Sri Saraha


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 11:12 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Oct 30, 2011 5:50 pm
Posts: 29
==


Last edited by WeiHan on Thu Sep 05, 2013 11:14 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 83 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next

All times are UTC [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 10 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group