Riwo Sangchod - ingredients question

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Riwo Sangchod - ingredients question

Postby Pema Rigdzin » Tue Jul 19, 2011 2:44 am

Namdrol and/or others knowledgeable about this practice -

I recently received the transmission of a sang practice (from ChNN)... It so happens I purchased some "Riwo Sangchod" incense a while back and when looking at the box noticed it contains musk. Is this a problem? Do sang offerings need to be free of animal products?

Also, can sang be offered any time of day or must it be morning?
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Re: Riwo Sangchod - ingredients question

Postby Malcolm » Tue Jul 19, 2011 2:46 am

Pema Rigdzin wrote:Namdrol and/or others knowledgeable about this practice -

I recently received the transmission of a sang practice (from ChNN)... It so happens I purchased some "Riwo Sangchod" incense a while back and when looking at the box noticed it contains musk. Is this a problem? Do sang offerings need to be free of animal products?

Also, can sang be offered any time of day or must it be morning?


Sang does not need to be free of musk. But don't use that stuff for Naga Pujas!

Sang is usually offered in the morning. But can be offered at other times as well.

You can use any fragrant herbs or sage, etc., for burning in sang. It just has to smell nice, does not have to be juniper, etc.

Juniper however is used because of its antiseptic properties and sang does mean "to cleanse".

N
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Re: Riwo Sangchod - ingredients question

Postby Pema Rigdzin » Tue Jul 19, 2011 2:54 am

Thanks a lot!
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Re: Riwo Sangchod - ingredients question

Postby Sherab Dorje » Tue Jul 19, 2011 9:38 am

The musk they are referring to may be plant based (Pelargonium odoratissimum. Geraniaceae) like that used in musk flavoured candy
musk.jpg
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musk candy.jpg
musk candy.jpg (29.31 KiB) Viewed 3006 times

It is really easy to grow (I grow it and add it to my sang mix) and smells fantastic when burnt.

Sang offerings need to be free of flesh (butter, milk and yoghurt are allowed and thoroughly reccomended), alcohol and guggul (as it repulses certain classes of beings and they cannot take part in the feast). Actually it is a good idea to have a seperate incense burner just for sang offerings. I brought a copper havan for doing the offerings, they tend to be a good size for individual practice and you can even light small pieces of wood in them.

Any desirable substance may be added. I grind up semi-precious stones and metals as well. When we do sang at the retreat centre, because we have a large permanent structure, we also cut up pieces of five coloured cloth and offer it. I also take the opportunity to burn destroyed Dharma texts and offer them up as well.

For me sang offering is one of my favorite and most enjoyable practices. I admit though that afterwards I always feel quite tired.

Burn baby burn!
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Re: Riwo Sangchod - ingredients question

Postby Malcolm » Tue Jul 19, 2011 1:44 pm

gregkavarnos wrote:The musk they are referring to may be plant based (Pelargonium odoratissimum. Geraniaceae) like that used in


Nope, absolutely not -- they are referring gla rtsi, which comes from the so-called "musk deer", Moschus moschiferus.

The musk deer belongs to the family Moschidae and lives in India, Pakistan, Tibet, China, Siberia and Mongolia. To obtain the musk, the deer is killed and its gland, also called "musk pod", is removed. Upon drying, the reddish-brown paste inside the musk pod turns into a black granular material called "musk grain", which is then tinctured with alcohol. The aroma of the tincture gives a pleasant odor only after it is considerably diluted. No other natural substance has such a complex aroma associated with so many contradictory descriptions; however, it is usually described abstractly as animalic, earthy and woody[3] or something akin to the odor of baby's skin.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Musk

Vegans and vegetarians should never, ever, use Tibetan Incense, because all good quality Tibetan incense has quite a bit of real musk in it.

Musk is also a very important substance in Tibetan and Ayurvedic medicine.

N
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Re: Riwo Sangchod - ingredients question

Postby Indrajala » Tue Jul 19, 2011 1:50 pm

Namdrol wrote:Vegans and vegetarians should never, ever, use Tibetan Incense, because all good quality Tibetan incense has quite a bit of real musk in it.

Musk is also a very important substance in Tibetan and Ayurvedic medicine.

N



I didn't know that. That's a useful piece of information, indeed.
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Re: Riwo Sangchod - ingredients question

Postby Malcolm » Tue Jul 19, 2011 1:52 pm

Huseng wrote:
Namdrol wrote:Vegans and vegetarians should never, ever, use Tibetan Incense, because all good quality Tibetan incense has quite a bit of real musk in it.

Musk is also a very important substance in Tibetan and Ayurvedic medicine.

N



I didn't know that. That's a useful piece of information, indeed.


On the other hand, the smell of musk is not attractive of certain kinds of provocations and so on, which is one of the reasons why it's use is so prevalent in Tibetan incense.

N
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Re: Riwo Sangchod - ingredients question

Postby Sherab Dorje » Tue Jul 19, 2011 2:26 pm

Namdrol wrote:Nope, absolutely not -- they are referring gla rtsi, which comes from the so-called "musk deer", Moschus moschiferus.
How incredibly unfortunate! So how do they justify putting it in riwo sang cho incense then?

That's why, in 99% of cases, it's always better to make ones own incense, especially for ritual use.
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Re: Riwo Sangchod - ingredients question

Postby Malcolm » Tue Jul 19, 2011 3:00 pm

gregkavarnos wrote:
Namdrol wrote:Nope, absolutely not -- they are referring gla rtsi, which comes from the so-called "musk deer", Moschus moschiferus.
How incredibly unfortunate! So how do they justify putting it in riwo sang cho incense then?

That's why, in 99% of cases, it's always better to make ones own incense, especially for ritual use.
:namaste:


Musk and musk deer leather, tusks, and so on, and so on are also very antiseptic and used for dispelling negative spirits. It is one of the main medicines used to repel spirit provocations too. Musk deer tusks at one time were used as needles for blood-letting since they will not cause infections.

For sang offerings, it is not necessary to use an incense. One can use herbs, sage, juniper, etc.

There are some incenses made for use in lower tantra that do not have musk. People who follow the system of lower tantra should use these.

Generally musk, gugul and so on are used in anuttarayoga tantra incense.
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Re: Riwo Sangchod - ingredients question

Postby Sherab Dorje » Tue Jul 19, 2011 4:17 pm

Okay, I can understand that logic, we use guggul during protector practices for example, but protectors are meant to repel and destroy. Sang, on the other hand, is a ritual where we invite all beings to take part in the feast, so again this does not explain the use of musk in riwo sang cho incense.

As for this:
For sang offerings, it is not necessary to use an incense. One can use herbs, sage, juniper, etc.
Again I agree but really, what is incense other than a blend of fragrant herbs, spices and resins? Again, this is why I normally use a sang mix of my own making, to be sure that I am not repeling any beings.
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Last edited by Sherab Dorje on Tue Jul 19, 2011 8:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Riwo Sangchod - ingredients question

Postby Malcolm » Tue Jul 19, 2011 7:13 pm

gregkavarnos wrote:what is incense other than a blend of fragrant herbs, spices and resins?



Incense is medicine, and to be made properly it needs to compounded properly, with the proper rites, and so on.

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Re: Riwo Sangchod - ingredients question

Postby pemachophel » Tue Jul 19, 2011 7:51 pm

Tibetan Treasures, the merchandizing vehicle of Chagdud Gompa, has a sang mixture made by the late Chagdud Rinpoche that contains all sorts of grains, herbs and medicines, gems, metals, and other precious substances. This can be added to any other offerings. When I'm in the Tibetan Buddhist parts of Asia, I like to buy similar little bags of sang mixture. These are commonly sold in Bhutan, Sikkim, Nepal, etc. I have a large plastic jug at home in which I mix these along with tsampa and other flours, the three sweets, and the three whites. Helps act as a support for my visualization. This is sympathetic magic after all.
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Re: Riwo Sangchod - ingredients question

Postby Adamantine » Fri Jan 13, 2012 9:54 am

There's also this good product with all the mother-sang seed substances from the precious collection of HH Dudjom Rinpoche:

http://www.littlemoonshop.com/spirit/tibetan-incense/smoke-offering-loose-juniper-tibetan-incense
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Re: Riwo Sangchod - ingredients question

Postby ngodrup » Wed Jan 18, 2012 7:40 pm

Who can check Chogyur Linpga's recipe for magnetizing incense for musk?
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Re: Riwo Sangchod - ingredients question

Postby Malcolm » Wed Jan 18, 2012 7:43 pm

ngodrup wrote:Who can check Chogyur Linpga's recipe for magnetizing incense for musk?



Where is it located, send me the page number and I can tell you.
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Re: Riwo Sangchod - ingredients question

Postby WeiHan » Wed Sep 04, 2013 1:18 pm

Hi,

I am wondering if the Shechen red box incense can be used for doing Riwo Sangcho practices? It is suppose to be similar in formula with the famous Mindroling incense which is extremely expensive but the Shechen incense is much cheaper and good value for the money.

Another related question is whether Riwo Sangcho incense can be used for Sur offering practices? I am guesing the answer is no since it doesn't contain any food product in it but I feel I need a confirmation answer.
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Re: Riwo Sangchod - ingredients question

Postby Adamantine » Wed Sep 04, 2013 2:42 pm

WeiHan wrote:Hi,

I am wondering if the Shechen red box incense can be used for doing Riwo Sangcho practices? It is suppose to be similar in formula with the famous Mindroling incense which is extremely expensive but the Shechen incense is much cheaper and good value for the money.

Another related question is whether Riwo Sangcho incense can be used for Sur offering practices? I am guesing the answer is no since it doesn't contain any food product in it but I feel I need a confirmation answer.


For Sur (assuming you mean the white sur) you should just make your own dough balls with wheat or barley flour, mixed in with the 3 sweets and 3 whites. . they do make some riwo sang cho incense that has the 3 sweets and 3 whites in it and can be used for Sur too... i've only ever seen a Bhutanese brand make it this way where you can use it for both though.
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Re: Riwo Sangchod - ingredients question

Postby Adamantine » Wed Sep 04, 2013 2:43 pm

Adamantine wrote:
WeiHan wrote:Hi,

I am wondering if the Shechen red box incense can be used for doing Riwo Sangcho practices? It is suppose to be similar in formula with the famous Mindroling incense which is extremely expensive but the Shechen incense is much cheaper and good value for the money.

Another related question is whether Riwo Sangcho incense can be used for Sur offering practices? I am guesing the answer is no since it doesn't contain any food product in it but I feel I need a confirmation answer.


For Sur (assuming you mean the white sur) you should just make your own dough balls with wheat or barley flour, mixed in with the 3 sweets and 3 whites. . they do make some riwo sang cho incense that has the 3 sweets and 3 whites in it and can be used for Sur too... i've only ever seen a Bhutanese brand make it this way where you can use it for both though.


Oh, and then you burn those balls over charcoal or a regular little fire. You should get instructions from your Lama though!
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Re: Riwo Sangchod - ingredients question

Postby pemachophel » Wed Sep 04, 2013 4:09 pm

I love to do sang. There are many different versions of sang. Riwo Sang-chod is pretty "generic," with offerings to all four types of recipients. Some other sang liturgies are more specific. For instance, there is a class of sang called nol-sang which is meant to specifically purify different kinds of drib/obscurations/defilements. There are also sang liturgies specifically to the Wealth Dieities, the Dra-lha, the Nagas, etc. (Of course, you only do Naga sang on appropriate Naga days.) And then there are different sang liturgies where one visualizes onself as different Dieties, for instance Guru Rinpoche (Riwo Sang-chod), Khasarpani Avalkotihesvara (Adzom Drukpa's sang), Troma Nagmo (Dudjom), etc. As for ingredients, the more different ingredients, the better, at least when you're making a nice-sized fire. Various types of birdseed mixes are good since they contain so many different types of grains, seeds, nuts, and fruits. Similar for various mixed bean and grain soup mixes. Little bits of all types of healing herbs. Pieces of cloth of the five colors. Khata. There are also small paper mandalas for burning with the sang to help empower it. Flowers of all types. (I did have to chuckle when someone earlier this summer brought glazed donuts for the sang.)

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Re: Riwo Sangchod - ingredients question

Postby Sherab Dorje » Wed Sep 04, 2013 4:18 pm

Adamantine wrote:For Sur (assuming you mean the white sur) you should just make your own dough balls with wheat or barley flour, mixed in with the 3 sweets and 3 whites. . they do make some riwo sang cho incense that has the 3 sweets and 3 whites in it and can be used for Sur too... i've only ever seen a Bhutanese brand make it this way where you can use it for both though.
You can use butter biscuits too. Some of the butter biscuits have all the necessary ingredients in them!

When we do the riwo sang cho we include the three sweets and three whites in the offering mix (along with all the other ingredients).
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