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Question on rebirth - Dhamma Wheel

Question on rebirth

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
Bagoba
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Question on rebirth

Postby Bagoba » Sun Apr 01, 2012 5:20 pm

Hi guys,

In access to insight we find this passage:

"Let us first see what happens when a worldling dies. It is an accepted fact that everybody fears death.[105] We also fear the unknown; therefore death is doubly fearful because we know least about it. It seems reasonable to assume that at the root of all fear there lurks the fear of death. In other words we fear everything which directly or indirectly threatens our life. So long as our bodies are strong enough, we can either fight or run away from the source of fear, with the intention of preserving life. But when ultimately we are on the deathbed face to face with death and our body is no longer strong enough to flee from death, it is highly unlikely that we will mentally accept death with resignation. We will struggle hard, long for and crave for life (ta.nhaa), and reach out and grasp (upaadaana) a viable base somewhere as the dying body can no longer sustain life. Once such a viable base, for instance a fertilized ovum in a mother's womb, has been grasped, the process of becoming or growth (bhava) starts there, which in due course gives rise to birth (jaati). This is what is referred to in the twelve-linked pa.ticcasamuppaada as "craving conditions grasping, grasping conditions becoming, becoming conditions birth."[106] Thus a worldling dies and is reborn."



Now I wonder, let's say that one has lived what he/she deems to be a very full and rewarding life, without spiritual training though because it was never his or her "thing", but one is very happy and content about the life he or she has lived, and has now fully accepted the fact that time to die has come, that nothing can be done about it, therefore is resigned to die. Let's say that person even longs for death now as his/her body is now old and making life not very "enjoyable" anymore. So when death comes, let's say that person welcomes it and does not graps for life like the way it is described in this passage. Is it possible for such a person to not be reborn? I am aware that this question may seem a bit silly, a bit gullible since I am not taking into consideration the kammic aspect of rebirth here, but again, it is probably the case for a lot of people to die with this state of mind, this acceptance and even relief that death is "finally" coming. Even people who die at a younger age from grave, long-term illnesses for example, and will eventually say "I'm ready" on their deathbed, as if they were no longer afraid of death, had fully accepted it and were actually ready for it...

Thanks for your replies :)
"This path is a thorough investigation and understanding of the limitations of the mortal condition of the body and mind. Now you're developing the ability to turn away from the conditioned and to release your identity from mortality." Ajan Sumedho, "Mindfulness, the path to the Deathless."

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David N. Snyder
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Re: Question on rebirth

Postby David N. Snyder » Sun Apr 01, 2012 5:59 pm

Such a person will probably have a good re-birth to a good destination, even the heavenly realms, but will not be liberated. As long as the 8-fold path was not walked and as long as there was no experiential insight of enlightenment, there will still be at least some subtle sense of self and then becoming.
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Bagoba
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Re: Question on rebirth

Postby Bagoba » Sun Apr 01, 2012 6:14 pm

"This path is a thorough investigation and understanding of the limitations of the mortal condition of the body and mind. Now you're developing the ability to turn away from the conditioned and to release your identity from mortality." Ajan Sumedho, "Mindfulness, the path to the Deathless."

Sarva
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Re: Question on rebirth

Postby Sarva » Sun Apr 01, 2012 7:15 pm

“Both formerly & now, it is only stress that I describe, and the cessation of stress.” — SN 22:86

Bagoba
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Re: Question on rebirth

Postby Bagoba » Sun Apr 01, 2012 7:34 pm

"This path is a thorough investigation and understanding of the limitations of the mortal condition of the body and mind. Now you're developing the ability to turn away from the conditioned and to release your identity from mortality." Ajan Sumedho, "Mindfulness, the path to the Deathless."

Sarva
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Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 5:49 pm

Re: Question on rebirth

Postby Sarva » Sun Apr 01, 2012 7:59 pm

“Both formerly & now, it is only stress that I describe, and the cessation of stress.” — SN 22:86

Bagoba
Posts: 78
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 5:43 pm

Re: Question on rebirth

Postby Bagoba » Sun Apr 01, 2012 8:32 pm

"This path is a thorough investigation and understanding of the limitations of the mortal condition of the body and mind. Now you're developing the ability to turn away from the conditioned and to release your identity from mortality." Ajan Sumedho, "Mindfulness, the path to the Deathless."

Sarva
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Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 5:49 pm

Re: Question on rebirth

Postby Sarva » Sun Apr 01, 2012 8:41 pm

Hi Bagoba, it's a pleasure.
I am afraid I don't know the answer to that one. Personally I think it is a 'wrong view' to consider a person incapable of 'enlightenment'. :)
metta
“Both formerly & now, it is only stress that I describe, and the cessation of stress.” — SN 22:86

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Alex123
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Re: Question on rebirth

Postby Alex123 » Sun Apr 01, 2012 8:49 pm

"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."

Bagoba
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Re: Question on rebirth

Postby Bagoba » Sun Apr 01, 2012 8:54 pm

"This path is a thorough investigation and understanding of the limitations of the mortal condition of the body and mind. Now you're developing the ability to turn away from the conditioned and to release your identity from mortality." Ajan Sumedho, "Mindfulness, the path to the Deathless."


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