10th Tantric Vow

dakini_boi
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10th Tantric Vow

Postby dakini_boi » Fri Aug 16, 2013 9:42 pm

The 10th Tantric vow is "to have compassion for evil beings especially those who harm the doctrine" (http://www.nyingma.com/artman/publish/n ... ents.shtml)

In Chod, don't we specifically make offerings to these beings? How is this not a violation of that vow?

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smcj
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Re: 10th Tantric Vow

Postby smcj » Fri Aug 16, 2013 10:35 pm

The vow is to have compassion for those who harm the Dharma. If you read the explanation lower down the link it makes it clear.

I know H.H.Karmapa XVI did puja for Mao when he died. :-)
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Grigoris
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Re: 10th Tantric Vow

Postby Grigoris » Fri Aug 16, 2013 10:54 pm

"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

dakini_boi
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Re: 10th Tantric Vow

Postby dakini_boi » Fri Aug 16, 2013 11:17 pm


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smcj
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Re: 10th Tantric Vow

Postby smcj » Fri Aug 16, 2013 11:45 pm

I read it as a prohibition against befriending or becoming personally involved with that kind of person, hence giving our personal loyalty to someone/thing that is in conflict with the Dharma. But I'm not a translator or scholar or anything, so that's just my opinion.
Don't take me too seriously.

Pema Rigdzin
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Re: 10th Tantric Vow

Postby Pema Rigdzin » Sat Aug 17, 2013 2:15 am

In Chod, by making the offerings to those beings, aren't they pacified and stop causing harm? I would think that would be the first resort before wrathful liberation, and therefore not violating the samaya in the least. I think by "have compassion for" means to be an enabler and supporter to them, which is obviously very different from helping them stop their destructive actions. One question, though, since I'm not super familiar with chod: are the unenlightened 4th guests being offered to actually beings specifically working against the Dharma or just causing trouble for humans in general?

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Re: 10th Tantric Vow

Postby Dharmaswede » Sat Aug 17, 2013 10:31 am

The 4th class of guests is vast. There are literally dozens and dozens of types of demons in Tibetan lore. I am not aware of any type being excluded. The most straightforward offering in chod is made to all sentient beings, no one is left out. Some sadhanas contain a kind of dharmic gift or seed to get the demon on the right path.

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Re: 10th Tantric Vow

Postby michaelb » Sat Aug 17, 2013 11:11 am

The 4th class is those beings to whom we owe karmic debts by harming and killing them in the past. They are specific to us, in this way, not being general enemies of the Dharma or demonic forces. We pay back our debt by making offerings of all the things we took from them. This isn't just found in chod but also sang and sur offerings and deity sadhanas and even ngondro, where they are given the privileged position closest to the tsok shing.

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Re: 10th Tantric Vow

Postby Dharmaswede » Sun Aug 18, 2013 7:07 am


ngodrup
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Re: 10th Tantric Vow

Postby ngodrup » Sat Aug 24, 2013 2:59 am

If it's true that over infinite lifetimes we're had inconceivable connections
of every sort with each and every being, then it would follow that we
ourselves are not on especially good terms with most of them. We've probably
made some promises we've failed to keep. So, although it is bad samaya
to be close to those who could easily lead us astray, there's still out indebtedness.
So, making offerings to them looks like a lenchak offering to pacify. Give them
what they want so they leave us alone, as it were.


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