Chinese mahayana meditation

Discussion of meditation in the Mahayana and Vajrayana traditions.

Chinese mahayana meditation

Postby Ervin » Sun Aug 11, 2013 10:35 am

Can someone give me some guidance on Chinese Mahayana meditation. Like what are the main points, etc.

Thanks
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Re: Chinese mahayana meditation

Postby Huifeng » Mon Aug 12, 2013 1:39 am

Hi,

Noting you are from Melbourne (Australia, I assume...), if I may be so bold:

The Mind and its Cultivation
Saturday, 11:00-12:30, 17 Aug, 2013

Fo Guang Yuan Art Gallery
141 Queen Street, Melbourne 3000, Australia
Tel: 61-3-9642 2388, Fax: 9642 3288
Email: melb.artgallery@gmail.com

http://www.ibcv.org.au/trial/news.asp?id=27

~~ Huifeng
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Re: Chinese mahayana meditation

Postby White Lotus » Sun Aug 18, 2013 6:46 pm

in the Mahayanasradhotpadasastra, two types of meditation are reccommended. Shamatha and Vipashyana. sometimes called tranquilization or absorption and insight. Shamatha is just to sit or lie down and to watch your breath, or to watch nothing at all. keeping a clear mind. keeping a clear mind is very difficult without practice. watching your breath just means to observe your breathing: if a thought comes you observe... a thought and then you let it go. to begin with your mind behaves like a naughty monkey. its all over the place and so you try to observe this chaotic mind. every time you realise that you have become distracted you return to the concentration of the breath. you must try not to try. just accept your meditation for however it is. one minute, five minutes, half an hour or for however long you practice. dont judge your medition. just watch your breath. you can do this anywhere at any time your attention is not needed for other things.

Vipashyana requires that you see objects or things with your attention. you can form a judgment about what you see. this is mindfulness and can be practiced whatever you are doing. vipashyana and shamatha merge into what you see right before you... some say THAT is it, but thats not enough. when not aware, for the large part of the day, where is the awareness then, or what when you are asleep. the MIND is all states and conditions.

what do you see right now? that is meditation. you see, you hear, you taste, you smell, you feel. all of this is meditation when you are conscious of it. when not, then is formless and is your natural mind. naturally just as it is. you mind is the Buddha, just as it is. no defilements or imperfections. you see, hear, taste, smell and feel.

if we attach to the name or concept... this is mind, we are still relying on a name, a form. we are still attached to an understanding and we limit ourselves. one should take ones stand in nothing whatsoever. to say i abide in nothing at all is still a position and is not yet emptiness.

going beyond emptiness, this is just a computer. that is meditation. if i am saying the computer is not, or it is empty. i am attached to the name emptiness. this is a computer will do just fine. that is that. but not to attach to that.

going beyond the form zen, which is just zen, we say that everyone is a buddha. we say tiles have it, rooves have it, dogs have it, plants have it. what is to be had? emptiness? no. awareness? no. nothingness? no. anything at all? no and yet yes to all things at their appointed time.

words take away freedom, no matter how beautiful a name it is let go. and yet going beyond the emptiness of Prajnaparamita, one is free to attach to any name or form. what are you lacking. Huang Po Hsi Yun said all things have been free from blemish from the very beginning... why this talk of seeing into your own nature. Donkeys have it, oxes have it, foxes have it. you have it. it is not a thing and yet is all things.

hope this is helpful. i dont know what im talking about.

best wishes, Tom.
in any matters of importance. dont rely on me. i may not know what i am talking about. take what i say as mere speculation. i am not ordained. nor do i have a formal training. i do believe though that if i am wrong on any point. there are those on this site who i hope will quickly point out my mistakes.
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Re: Chinese mahayana meditation

Postby lawrence » Mon Aug 19, 2013 3:32 am

White Lotus wrote:in the Mahayanasradhotpadasastra, two types of meditation are reccommended. Shamatha and Vipashyana. sometimes called tranquilization or absorption and insight. Shamatha is just to sit or lie down and to watch your breath, or to watch nothing at all. keeping a clear mind. keeping a clear mind is very difficult without practice. watching your breath just means to observe your breathing: if a thought comes you observe... a thought and then you let it go. to begin with your mind behaves like a naughty monkey. its all over the place and so you try to observe this chaotic mind. every time you realise that you have become distracted you return to the concentration of the breath. you must try not to try. just accept your meditation for however it is. one minute, five minutes, half an hour or for however long you practice. dont judge your medition. just watch your breath. you can do this anywhere at any time your attention is not needed for other things.

Vipashyana requires that you see objects or things with your attention. you can form a judgment about what you see. this is mindfulness and can be practiced whatever you are doing. vipashyana and shamatha merge into what you see right before you... some say THAT is it, but thats not enough. when not aware, for the large part of the day, where is the awareness then, or what when you are asleep. the MIND is all states and conditions.

what do you see right now? that is meditation. you see, you hear, you taste, you smell, you feel. all of this is meditation when you are conscious of it. when not, then is formless and is your natural mind. naturally just as it is. you mind is the Buddha, just as it is. no defilements or imperfections. you see, hear, taste, smell and feel.

if we attach to the name or concept... this is mind, we are still relying on a name, a form. we are still attached to an understanding and we limit ourselves. one should take ones stand in nothing whatsoever. to say i abide in nothing at all is still a position and is not yet emptiness.

going beyond emptiness, this is just a computer. that is meditation. if i am saying the computer is not, or it is empty. i am attached to the name emptiness. this is a computer will do just fine. that is that. but not to attach to that.

going beyond the form zen, which is just zen, we say that everyone is a buddha. we say tiles have it, rooves have it, dogs have it, plants have it. what is to be had? emptiness? no. awareness? no. nothingness? no. anything at all? no and yet yes to all things at their appointed time.

words take away freedom, no matter how beautiful a name it is let go. and yet going beyond the emptiness of Prajnaparamita, one is free to attach to any name or form. what are you lacking. Huang Po Hsi Yun said all things have been free from blemish from the very beginning... why this talk of seeing into your own nature. Donkeys have it, oxes have it, foxes have it. you have it. it is not a thing and yet is all things.

hope this is helpful. i dont know what im talking about.

best wishes, Tom.

Very nice "not knowing
Gassho
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Re: Chinese mahayana meditation

Postby Jinzang » Tue Aug 20, 2013 1:53 am

Lamrim, lojong, and mahamudra are the unmistaken path.
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Re: Chinese mahayana meditation

Postby Ervin » Fri Aug 30, 2013 4:57 am

Thank you all.
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Re: Chinese mahayana meditation

Postby JKhedrup » Fri Aug 30, 2013 10:26 am

Does anyone know of any resources on how meditation was practiced in the Hua Yen tradition?
A foolish man proclaims his qualifications,
A wise man keeps them secret within.
A straw floats on the surface of water,
But a precious gem placed upon it sinks to the depths
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Re: Chinese mahayana meditation

Postby Astus » Fri Aug 30, 2013 12:39 pm

JKhedrup wrote:Does anyone know of any resources on how meditation was practiced in the Hua Yen tradition?


This is the only work I know in English: On The Meditation of Dharmadhātu by Master Tu Shun. It's also found in Cleary's collection plus commentary.
"There is no such thing as the real mind. Ridding yourself of delusion: that's the real mind."
(Sheng-yen: Getting the Buddha Mind, p 73)

“Don’t rashly seek the true Buddha;
True Buddha can’t be found.
Does marvelous nature and spirit
Need tempering or refinement?
Mind is this mind carefree;
This face, the face at birth."

(Nanyue Mingzan: Enjoying the Way, tr. Jeff Shore; T51n2076, p461b24-26)
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Re: Chinese mahayana meditation

Postby JKhedrup » Fri Aug 30, 2013 1:48 pm

thanks so much Astus!
A foolish man proclaims his qualifications,
A wise man keeps them secret within.
A straw floats on the surface of water,
But a precious gem placed upon it sinks to the depths
-Sakya Pandita
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Re: Chinese mahayana meditation

Postby Astus » Fri Aug 30, 2013 4:44 pm

In the Collected Works of Korean Buddhism there are two volumes on Huayan, although by Korean authors, but Uisang's seal is known throughout East Asia and it can also be used for meditation. Also, in the second Hwaeom volume it has a treatise on the Ocean Seal Samadhi.
"There is no such thing as the real mind. Ridding yourself of delusion: that's the real mind."
(Sheng-yen: Getting the Buddha Mind, p 73)

“Don’t rashly seek the true Buddha;
True Buddha can’t be found.
Does marvelous nature and spirit
Need tempering or refinement?
Mind is this mind carefree;
This face, the face at birth."

(Nanyue Mingzan: Enjoying the Way, tr. Jeff Shore; T51n2076, p461b24-26)
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Re: Chinese mahayana meditation

Postby JKhedrup » Fri Aug 30, 2013 7:45 pm

Master Tu Shun's style reminds me of Tsongkhapa in some ways!
A foolish man proclaims his qualifications,
A wise man keeps them secret within.
A straw floats on the surface of water,
But a precious gem placed upon it sinks to the depths
-Sakya Pandita
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Re: Chinese mahayana meditation

Postby Will » Fri Aug 30, 2013 9:39 pm

JKhedrup wrote:Does anyone know of any resources on how meditation was practiced in the Hua Yen tradition?


I have a PDF of Cleary's collection of HuaYen texts Entry into the Inconceivable. Send me a PM with your email and I will send it to anyone.
Revealing one essence: this means the inherently pure, complete, luminous essence, which is pure of its own nature. -- Fa-tsang
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Re: Chinese mahayana meditation

Postby JKhedrup » Sun Sep 01, 2013 8:07 am

Will I sent you a PM with my email so please do send the text when you have a moment! I am looking forward to reading it.
A foolish man proclaims his qualifications,
A wise man keeps them secret within.
A straw floats on the surface of water,
But a precious gem placed upon it sinks to the depths
-Sakya Pandita
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Re: Chinese mahayana meditation

Postby Will » Sun Sep 01, 2013 2:30 pm

JKhedrup wrote:Will I sent you a PM with my email so please do send the text when you have a moment! I am looking forward to reading it.


I did yesterday- look in your spam folder for a 'gmx' address, with 'Cleary's Huayen book' in Subject line.
Revealing one essence: this means the inherently pure, complete, luminous essence, which is pure of its own nature. -- Fa-tsang
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Re: Chinese mahayana meditation

Postby JKhedrup » Sun Sep 01, 2013 2:49 pm

Thanks so much! It is indeed there.
A foolish man proclaims his qualifications,
A wise man keeps them secret within.
A straw floats on the surface of water,
But a precious gem placed upon it sinks to the depths
-Sakya Pandita
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Re: Chinese mahayana meditation

Postby rory » Sat Sep 28, 2013 5:20 am

Dear Will;
I just sent you a pm for the Cleary pdf if you do have it, I would be very grateful. Also I believe this page has Uisang's diagram.
http://www.san-shin.org/Uisang-Haeindo.html
gassho
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Re: Chinese mahayana meditation

Postby rory » Sat Sep 28, 2013 9:55 pm

Thank you Will:) and I found this if people don't have it:

This thesis is a translation, with notes and introduction, of the Commentary to the Hua-yan Dharma-realm Meditation, This text is a commentary to the Dharma-realm Meditation, which is incorporated into the former. The core text is by the first patriarch of the Hua-yan school of Buddhism in China, Du-shun (557-64-0); the commentary is by the fifth patriarch of the Hua-yan school, Zong-mi (780-841), The text is both philosophical and meditational in nature, and is a concise statement of the key doctrines of the school. The introduction to this text prepares the reader for the translation by providing the information and concepts necessary for an understanding of the text. This includes material on the translation of technical terms, a brief sketch of some Buddhist texts referred to by the authors, biographical information on the authors, historical and philosophical background to the Hua-yan school, a comment on the literary and meditational aspects of the text, and a general summary of the text by chapters.

https://circle.ubc.ca/handle/2429/19489

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