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PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2013 6:18 am 
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This is not my personal experience but I am retelling an event that happened last night that my boyfriend's mother and sister witnessed/were involved in.

My boyfriend's mother attends temple and has frequent visits with monks on a weekly basis. I am not sure what type of buddhism she follows but she speaks vietnamese and we are located in Australia. I'm assuming the mother wanted some answers and wanted to attend this "event"(i'm not sure what i should call it) for some answers and healing and the daughter (my boyfriends sister) decided to come with her for moral support.

What apparently happened was that the monk prayed and called upon a spirit, supposedly Buddha himself to take over the body of a random woman in the audience(perhaps around 20 or less people who decided to come). She assumed a new authoritative voice and spoke to the mother. She then pinned down the mother and hit her constantly at the chest for a minute or two and told her to believe in her.

She knew about every single detail about the house that they were living in, every family member's age, my boyfriend's eye disease, the daughter's boyfriend's family, the daughter's plans to move.

My boyfriend was recently diagnosed at a very early onset of glaucoma and the lady immediately asked about his eye condition and said that he would be almost blind by the age of 40. The lady also said that there was a female who wasn't a part of the family who frequented their home a lot, me. She knew about the daughter's secret intentions to move out with her boyfriend sometime in the future (which was meant to be a secret) and told her how she was too young to do such things. The lady told them that my boyfriend should love his mother more because apparently he has not done so as much recently. There were plenty more things that this stranger knew about him and his family.

On top of that, the mother had had shoulder pain for 20 years(and was unable to lift her right arm) and had fractured her ankle last year. The lady pinpointed the areas of pain and twisted, turned and hit those areas. Apparently this healed the mother and helped her gain mobility back in her right shoulder.

The lady who has been possessed proceeded to go on a mission at night to chase off evil spirits, in which the mother and daughter left before it got too late.



This is what I heard from my boyfriend's sister who witnessed this last night. She, 26, said that initially she was a huge skeptic but came home rather amazed and confused. I saw the mother's upper chest where she was beaten and it was extremely red.

I am not buddhist so I am sorry if i offended anyone in this thread with my ignorance or wrong use of words. I come from a christian background and hearing something like this really concerns me. I have tried to research these things on websites and boards on Buddhism but have been confused along the way.

I want to ask:
Is calling upon a spirit or Buddha to possess a person to do these things possible?
Is this dark magic?
And any other inputs you may have about this.

I am very grateful for any kind of feedback I may get from you all.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2013 6:32 am 
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From a Tibetan Buddhism pov, yes it's possible for spirits to possess humans.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zj-6gaTOPGI

However, Buddhas do not possess humans.

Furthermore, involvement in spirits can be dangerous because spirits are not human. They can turn on their worshiper for reasons that humans wouldn't even think of.

Sometimes spirits can be oath bound to protect Buddhism by great masters.

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-Paraphrase of Khensur Rinpoche Lobsang Tsephel citing the Guhyasamaja Tantra

"All memories and thoughts are the union of emptiness and knowing, the Mind.
Without attachment, self-liberating, like a snake in a knot.
Through the qualities of meditating in that way,
Mental obscurations are purified and the dharmakaya is attained."

-Ra Lotsawa, All-pervading Melodious Drumbeats


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2013 6:35 am 
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Buddha does not possess anyone, and calling spirits is not a Buddhist teaching.

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NAM MO A DI DA PHAT (VIETNAMESE)
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―Listen! Those of you who devote yourselves to the Dharma
must not be afraid of losing your bodies and your lives―


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2013 6:51 am 
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Konchog1 wrote:
From a Tibetan Buddhism pov, yes it's possible for spirits to possess humans.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zj-6gaTOPGI

However, Buddhas do not possess humans.

Furthermore, involvement in spirits can be dangerous because spirits are not human. They can turn on their worshiper for reasons that humans wouldn't even think of.

Sometimes spirits can be oath bound to protect Buddhism by great masters.


That was a very interesting video (in fact, The Dalai Lama himself visited my university a few months ago), thank you very much for showing me it. Would you recommend that my boyfriends mother should not stray too far off to pursue the insight of spirits like, but focus on enlightening herself through other means? She is also very superstitious and used to go to fortune tellers. From my understanding from what i researched, we should not be putting our faith in horoscopes, fortune telling and trinkets that supposedly give luck.

In addition to this, is there a particular reason why this random lady in the audience was chosen for this possession?

Thank you very much, I will read more about oracles


LastLegend wrote:
Buddha does not possess anyone, and calling spirits is not a Buddhist teaching.


Thank you very much LastLegend. This confuses me a little as apparently according to Konchog1 it is possible in Tibetan buddhism.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2013 4:21 pm 
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soy wrote:
Would you recommend that my boyfriends mother should not stray too far off to pursue the insight of spirits like, but focus on enlightening herself through other means?

From my understanding from what i researched, we should not be putting our faith in horoscopes, fortune telling and trinkets that supposedly give luck.
Exactly.

soy wrote:
In addition to this, is there a particular reason why this random lady in the audience was chosen for this possession?
No idea.

soy wrote:
LastLegend wrote:
Buddha does not possess anyone, and calling spirits is not a Buddhist teaching.


Thank you very much LastLegend. This confuses me a little as apparently according to Konchog1 it is possible in Tibetan buddhism.
No, he's right. What HHDL is doing is like if I, a Buddhist, made some offerings to Zeus and asked for a favor.

It's not Buddhist, just practiced by some Buddhists.

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Equanimity is the ground. Love is the moisture. Compassion is the seed. Bodhicitta is the result.

-Paraphrase of Khensur Rinpoche Lobsang Tsephel citing the Guhyasamaja Tantra

"All memories and thoughts are the union of emptiness and knowing, the Mind.
Without attachment, self-liberating, like a snake in a knot.
Through the qualities of meditating in that way,
Mental obscurations are purified and the dharmakaya is attained."

-Ra Lotsawa, All-pervading Melodious Drumbeats


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2013 5:12 pm 
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Konchog1 wrote:
From a Tibetan Buddhism pov, yes it's possible for spirits to possess humans.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zj-6gaTOPGI


I have to admit that I can't make heads or tails out of what is going on in that video... but it looks like many of the younger monks are just as confused as I am, so I guess I shouldn't feel too bad!

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2013 6:30 pm 
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First, I would like to thank you. Most Christians would automatically assume that this is the work of demons and Buddhism is a devil worshiping religion. You have not done that, but have come genuinely seeking answers. That is quite refreshing from the usual. Thank you.

Now, as regards to your question: such things are not really part of Buddhism. As one poster pointed out, some things like this can be found in the esoteric schools, but overall, Buddhism doesn't generally deal with spirit possession. One thing you have to remember, is that, as Buddhism entered various countries and cultures, it was combined with local indigenous religions, which normally accepted such things. So I would say, while the place may have been labelled as Buddhist, it's probably absorbed local customs and traditions, and that's where this incident comes from.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2013 6:55 pm 
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This is a great three part documentary on the state oracle of Tibet. Just ignore the sectarian rantings and links appended to the video description (if you watch it over at youtube.com )



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PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2013 8:35 pm 
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I think the Oracle documentary is actually four parts. I watched it first on buddhistmedia.com years ago but for some reason I can't watch their videos any more. Shame because they have lots of good stuff on there.
Anyway, the full doc is here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQ1VvvrAILo&feature=youtube_gdata_player
The last bit contains unpleasant photos from a murder scene and an inconclusive summing up, as you might expect, given the subject matter.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2013 9:52 pm 
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Oooooopsss... you are quite right!

Here is part 4 just so we have two full versions! :smile:

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Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 18, 2013 12:00 am 
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The Nechung Oracle of Tibet warned HHDL of the impending danger from China and also advised Him as to which escape route to take out of Tibet.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 18, 2013 12:43 am 
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Dorje Shedrub wrote:
The Nechung Oracle of Tibet warned HHDL of the impending danger from China and also advised Him as to which escape route to take out of Tibet.
The Nechung also promised to defeat the British army in 1904.

Spirits are unreliable (as are humans for that matter).

"What worldly god, himself also bound in the prison of cyclic existence, is able to protect others? Therefore, when refuge is sought, taking refuge in the undeceiving Triple Gem is the bodhisattvas’ practice."
-Thirty Seven Practices of the Bodhisattva

_________________
Equanimity is the ground. Love is the moisture. Compassion is the seed. Bodhicitta is the result.

-Paraphrase of Khensur Rinpoche Lobsang Tsephel citing the Guhyasamaja Tantra

"All memories and thoughts are the union of emptiness and knowing, the Mind.
Without attachment, self-liberating, like a snake in a knot.
Through the qualities of meditating in that way,
Mental obscurations are purified and the dharmakaya is attained."

-Ra Lotsawa, All-pervading Melodious Drumbeats


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 18, 2013 4:29 am 
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Konchog1 wrote:
Spirits are unreliable (as are humans for that matter).

"What worldly god, himself also bound in the prison of cyclic existence, is able to protect others? Therefore, when refuge is sought, taking refuge in the undeceiving Triple Gem is the bodhisattvas’ practice."
-Thirty Seven Practices of the Bodhisattva



HHDL has said that the oracles are reliable but many factors are involved, such as the kuten and the necessary meditation practices. If you wish to disagree with HHDL, that is your business.

Guru Rinpoche oath bound these oracles as well as the Dharmaphalas. You do not do any deity practices? There are many protector practices to remove obstacles.

No one should take refuge in oracles, so I don't know why you bring that up.

DS


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 18, 2013 7:08 am 
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I wouldn't take refuge in my Muay Thai Kru (teacher), but I would certainly listen to their advice about what to do in a punch-up.

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