What are the differences between the Sakya and Gelug lineages of VY? I understand that the Gelug VY originally came from Sakya but I heard there are differences in the practice itself. Within the limits of what can be discussed in a public forum could someone please explain to me what the main differences in practice between the two lineages? Thank you.
lkug.pa wrote:Did you check the site http://vajrayogini.com/index.php?
Both saddhanas are there, may be you can compare it by your self.
PD: Check out http://amuletforums.com/threads/vajrayo ... ism.32896/
JKhedrup wrote:When I met Lama Migmar in Europe and asked him this question he did say the Gelug Vajrayogini incorporated some longer elements in the offering section and different word choices in other parts of the sadhana, but that he felt there were no major, significant differences. I was a little surprised because I heard several Sakya lamas were not so happy with their VY practice being co-opted and popularized so widely by Gelug Lamas.(Lama Migmar is a scholar and teacher in the Sakya tradition).
I would happily take a Sakya Vajrayogini initiation if the opportunity arose from HHST or Jetsun Kushok-la. The thing is, though, I am not sure if the Sakya ngondro and things would be required before taking this.
I was just surprised that Lama Migmar reacted to the question. I was very curious, and wanted to ask, but was half expecting a "Ah Yes the Gelugs co-opted one of our treasured inner practices bit", so his open response was a pleasant surprise.
He actually said there were some interesting commentaries in the Gelug tradition, though of course, that the Sakyas "held the complete lineage with uncommon instructions etc." (paraphrasing as this was awhile ago).
JKhedrup wrote:Thanks Malcolm this is interesting information, I will definitely follow up. If HHST gives it in India it might be possible, but in Europe I have to work most weekends so it is more difficult. rgyud sde spyi rnams is definitely something I will look into. Can I get the text online or should I ask a friend of mine at Dzongsar Shedra to send it?
While we're on the topic...Why did Pabhongkha like Vajrayogini so much? Considering him, I would assume he would have been a strict 'Tsongkhapa's three' purist.Malcolm wrote:Basically, the pre-Pabhongkha tradition of VY is unchanged from the Sakya presentation. But Pabhongkha made a number of changes to the tradition based on his own intellectual ideas of how the practice should be brought into line with the broader Cakrasamvara tradition.
Konchog1 wrote:While we're on the topic...Why did Pabhongkha like Vajrayogini so much? Considering him, I would assume he would have been a strict 'Tsongkhapa's three' purist.
(Everyone, let's please not make this one of those threads)
lama tsewang wrote:is the book by sonam tsemo, the book translater as yoginis eye??
Wayne Verrill wrote:I apologize for the long delay in responding to the last post under this topic, but the matter has just come to my attention. The actual title of Sonam Tsemo's book appears on Volume 3, page 146, line 3 in the Sa-skya bKa'-'bum edition and on Volume 1, page 574, line 3 of the Lam-'bras Tshogs-bshad edition. The translation of this section is in the Epilogue on page 531. The actual Tibetan term is rnal-'byor mig, which literally translates as Yoga Eye. The fact that this is the title is confirmed by many commentators who refer to the root text by this name. Since Yoga Eye is a bit awkward in English, I took the liberty of changing it to Yogini's Eye, justified on the basis of the Hevajra Tantra being identified as a Yogini Tantra (see pages 290-297 in the translation). This issue was actually referred to on page 5 of the Translator's Introduction. .
WeiHan wrote: For example, In the Sakya's teaching, disciple was chided for blaming the efficacy of the mantra while it is their own fault for not concentrating well during the mantra recitation.
On the contrary, in the Gelug teachings, it promises that even reciting the mantra with weak concentration will bring results and it is the only mantra that has this advantage in this degenerate age.
The Gelug teaching also make comparison with other tantra and practices so as to illustrate the supremacy of this practice while the Sakya teaching do not...
However, my doubt is that if even mundane siddhis can be easily attained thru this practice, then why does the Sakya need the other Golden Dharmas which bundled together with this practice in the well known "13 Golden Dharmas"? For example, since VY is effective gaining wealth, then do you still need a Red Jambala?
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