I just want to hear your opinion. No offenses please,

General discussion, particularly exploring the Dharma in the modern world.
[N.B. This is the forum that was called ‘Exploring Buddhism’. The new name simply describes it better.]
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jonaz108
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I just want to hear your opinion. No offenses please,

Postby jonaz108 » Thu Aug 15, 2013 3:42 pm

I just want to hear serious, non-insultuous, opinions about this verse from the Srimad Bhagavatam.

Atheists do not want any God, and Lord Buddha therefore said that there is no God, but he adopted the means to instruct his followers for their benefit. Therefore he preached in a duplicitous way, saying that there is no God. Nonetheless, he himself was an incarnation of God.
Srimad Bhagavatam Canto 5.15.1, Translation and Purport:


Śrīla Śukadeva Gosvāmī continued: The son of Mahārāja Bharata known as Sumati followed the path of Ṛṣabhadeva, but some unscrupulous people imagined him to be Lord Buddha himself. These people, who were actually atheistic and of bad character, took up the Vedic principles in an imaginary, infamous way to support their activities. Thus these sinful people accepted Sumati as Lord Buddhadeva and propagated the theory that everyone should follow the principles of Sumati. In this way they were carried away by mental concoction.

Purport by Srila Prabhupada:
Those who are Āryans strictly follow the Vedic principles, but in this age of Kali a community has sprung up known as the ārya-samāja, which is ignorant of the import of the Vedas in the paramparā system. Their leaders decry all bona fide ācāryas, and they pose themselves as the real followers of the Vedic principles. These ācāryas who do not follow the Vedic principles are presently known as the ārya-samājas, or the Jains. Not only do they not follow the Vedic principles, but they have no relationship with Lord Buddha. Imitating the behavior of Sumati, they claim to be the descendants of Ṛṣabhadeva. Those who are Vaiṣṇavas carefully avoid their company because they are ignorant of the path of the Vedas. In Bhagavad-gītā (15.15) Kṛṣṇa says, vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyaḥ: "The real purpose of the Vedas is to understand Me." This is the injunction of all Vedic literatures. One who does not know the greatness of Lord Kṛṣṇa cannot be accepted as an Āryan. Lord Buddha, an incarnation of Lord Kṛṣṇa, adopted a particular means to propagate the philosophy of bhāgavata-dharma. He preached almost exclusively among atheists. Atheists do not want any God, and Lord Buddha therefore said that there is no God, but he adopted the means to instruct his followers for their benefit. Therefore he preached in a duplicitous way, saying that there is no God. Nonetheless, he himself was an incarnation of God.
Since I live in Portugal, I can only answer to posts between 9:00 and 20:00 (0º UTC).

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Astus
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Re: I just want to hear your opinion. No offenses please,

Postby Astus » Thu Aug 15, 2013 3:58 pm

Vaisnavas believe that Buddha was an incarnation of Visnu. Indian religions are often distinguished by Hindus whether they follow the Vedas or not (). So the above commentary criticises the Jainas because they are neither orthodox Hindu nor Buddhists,
Myriad dharmas are only mind.
Mind is unobtainable.
What is there to seek?

If the Buddha-Nature is seen,
there will be no seeing of a nature in any thing.

Neither cultivation nor seated meditation —
this is the pure Chan of Tathagata.

With sudden enlightenment to Tathagata Chan,
the six paramitas and myriad means
are complete within that essence.



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yan kong
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Re: I just want to hear your opinion. No offenses please,

Postby yan kong » Thu Aug 15, 2013 4:50 pm

I had a very devout Muslim friend who upon hearing I was Buddhist proposed to Muslims all founders of religions were true prophets of god but their followers lost their way over time and these religions became corrupt. I suppose we all have a different way of seeing the Buddha.
"Meditation is a spiritual exercise, not a therapeutic regime... Our intention is to enter Nirvana, not to make life in Samsara more tolerable." Chan Master Hsu Yun

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Re: I just want to hear your opinion. No offenses please,

Postby Grigoris » Thu Aug 15, 2013 5:01 pm

If you are a follower of Vishnu, worshipping Buddha as an avatar of Vishnu, then the abovementioned quotes are 100% true (within the specific religious framework). If you are a Buddhist, then realistically, the abovementioned quotes shouldn't concern you in the least. They are basically irrelevant to your path. If you are trying to walk a tight rope between the two notions, well, I am sad to say that sooner or later somebody will make you fall off the rope.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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Re: I just want to hear your opinion. No offenses please,

Postby Seishin » Thu Aug 15, 2013 5:15 pm


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jonaz108
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Re: I just want to hear your opinion. No offenses please,

Postby jonaz108 » Thu Aug 15, 2013 5:57 pm

Since I live in Portugal, I can only answer to posts between 9:00 and 20:00 (0º UTC).

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Grigoris
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Re: I just want to hear your opinion. No offenses please,

Postby Grigoris » Thu Aug 15, 2013 6:06 pm

"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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Re: I just want to hear your opinion. No offenses please,

Postby flavio81 » Thu Aug 15, 2013 6:18 pm


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Karma Dorje
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Re: I just want to hear your opinion. No offenses please,

Postby Karma Dorje » Thu Aug 15, 2013 6:29 pm

"Although my view is higher than the sky, My respect for the cause and effect of actions is as fine as grains of flour."
-Padmasambhava

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Jainarayan
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Re: I just want to hear your opinion. No offenses please,

Postby Jainarayan » Thu Aug 15, 2013 7:07 pm

Worthy, wise and virtuous: Who is energetic and not indolent, in misfortune unshaken,
flawless in manner and intelligent, such one will honor gain. - Digha Nikaya III 273

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Jainarayan
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Re: I just want to hear your opinion. No offenses please,

Postby Jainarayan » Thu Aug 15, 2013 7:09 pm

Worthy, wise and virtuous: Who is energetic and not indolent, in misfortune unshaken,
flawless in manner and intelligent, such one will honor gain. - Digha Nikaya III 273

shel
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Re: I just want to hear your opinion. No offenses please,

Postby shel » Thu Aug 15, 2013 9:14 pm


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Grigoris
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Re: I just want to hear your opinion. No offenses please,

Postby Grigoris » Thu Aug 15, 2013 9:33 pm

"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

shel
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Re: I just want to hear your opinion. No offenses please,

Postby shel » Thu Aug 15, 2013 9:46 pm

I know.

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yan kong
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Re: I just want to hear your opinion. No offenses please,

Postby yan kong » Thu Aug 15, 2013 9:52 pm

"Meditation is a spiritual exercise, not a therapeutic regime... Our intention is to enter Nirvana, not to make life in Samsara more tolerable." Chan Master Hsu Yun

shel
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Re: I just want to hear your opinion. No offenses please,

Postby shel » Thu Aug 15, 2013 10:02 pm


JKhedrup
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Re: I just want to hear your opinion. No offenses please,

Postby JKhedrup » Thu Aug 15, 2013 10:32 pm

Last edited by JKhedrup on Thu Aug 15, 2013 10:44 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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smcj
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Re: I just want to hear your opinion. No offenses please,

Postby smcj » Thu Aug 15, 2013 10:39 pm

In the late 19th century a Russian journalist wrote a book about Jesus having traveled to India to learn Buddha's Dharma. Nobody that checked his "sources" found evidence of any such thing. Yet the idea persists even to this day. That doesn't make it true. :focus:
Don't take me too seriously.

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Johnny Dangerous
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Re: I just want to hear your opinion. No offenses please,

Postby Johnny Dangerous » Thu Aug 15, 2013 10:47 pm

My opinion is that it's a really convenient way to attempt folding Buddhism into another belief system, especially since Buddhism refutes some of the ideas about causality and the "personal' nature of the absolute inherent in most traditional theism(s).

Personally i've always found it to sound like a really silly claim, but then again i'm no scholar whatsoever so maybe there's some important insight i'm missing :shrug:

One of the things that attracted me to Buddhism when I was a younger person was that I really liked the lack of speculation about "the nature of God" and similar exercises..most of which always struck me as building a big artifice of one's own projections anyway.
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Re: I just want to hear your opinion. No offenses please,

Postby Pema Rigdzin » Thu Aug 15, 2013 10:59 pm



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