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The Buddha's Challenge in Teaching the Dhamma - Dhamma Wheel

The Buddha's Challenge in Teaching the Dhamma

Textual analysis and comparative discussion on early Buddhist sects and texts.
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retrofuturist
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The Buddha's Challenge in Teaching the Dhamma

Postby retrofuturist » Thu Mar 15, 2012 1:23 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Re: The Buddha's Challenge in Teaching the Dhamma

Postby kirk5a » Thu Mar 15, 2012 3:29 am

"When one thing is practiced & pursued, ignorance is abandoned, clear knowing arises, the conceit 'I am' is abandoned, latent tendencies are uprooted, fetters are abandoned. Which one thing? Mindfulness immersed in the body." -AN 1.230

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Re: The Buddha's Challenge in Teaching the Dhamma

Postby ground » Thu Mar 15, 2012 3:39 am


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Re: The Buddha's Challenge in Teaching the Dhamma

Postby danieLion » Thu Mar 15, 2012 3:40 am


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Re: The Buddha's Challenge in Teaching the Dhamma

Postby retrofuturist » Thu Mar 15, 2012 3:42 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Re: The Buddha's Challenge in Teaching the Dhamma

Postby mikenz66 » Thu Mar 15, 2012 3:47 am


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Re: The Buddha's Challenge in Teaching the Dhamma

Postby retrofuturist » Thu Mar 15, 2012 3:57 am

Greetings Mike,

Thanks for the excellent cross-referencing on Brahma Sahampati.

It is interesting to note that in the suttas you quote, he "confirms" the teaching in question with a "So it is, Blessed One! So it is, Fortunate One!" refrain but he does not do so in SN 6:1.

There could be reasons put forward pertaining to the depth of the teaching of dependent origination, but it seems more plausible that at the time in question Brahma Sahampati didn't know that "so it is", because the Buddha had yet to teach Dhamma. Therefore, he had no basis upon which to proclaim ""So it is, Blessed One!"

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Re: The Buddha's Challenge in Teaching the Dhamma

Postby Viscid » Thu Mar 15, 2012 4:05 am

Was this/that conditionality and dependent co-arising an original teaching of The Buddha? To what extent did similar teachings of the 'five aggregates, six senses, four elements, kamma, jhana, the Noble Eightfold Path' exist prior to Gautama's exposition? Perhaps he specifically mentions dependent origination and cause/effect because it's what really separated him from other teachers at the time.
"What holds attention determines action." - William James

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Re: The Buddha's Challenge in Teaching the Dhamma

Postby kirk5a » Thu Mar 15, 2012 4:07 am

"When one thing is practiced & pursued, ignorance is abandoned, clear knowing arises, the conceit 'I am' is abandoned, latent tendencies are uprooted, fetters are abandoned. Which one thing? Mindfulness immersed in the body." -AN 1.230

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Re: The Buddha's Challenge in Teaching the Dhamma

Postby Nyana » Thu Mar 15, 2012 4:08 am


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Re: The Buddha's Challenge in Teaching the Dhamma

Postby retrofuturist » Thu Mar 15, 2012 4:10 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Re: The Buddha's Challenge in Teaching the Dhamma

Postby Nyana » Thu Mar 15, 2012 4:11 am


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Re: The Buddha's Challenge in Teaching the Dhamma

Postby vinasp » Thu Mar 15, 2012 4:11 am

Hi retro,

retro said;

"Firstly, is the challenge itself even real, or is it simply an opportunity for Brahma Sahampati to make great merit? Is it an apocryphal text? Hagiography? etc."

In my opinion, the difficulty of teaching awakening is a real one. It is
not like other subjects which can be understood conceptually. One is being
invited to bring about a profound psychological transformation. This involves
a sort of "psychological death" which can be difficult for many people. It runs
counter to all our social conditioning, and to normal human psychology.

I am not even sure that it is possible for most of us living in a modern
consumer society. But there are always exceptions of course.

No matter how good a teacher is, language itself has limitations, and one
must do the real work oneself.

Regards, Vincent.

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Re: The Buddha's Challenge in Teaching the Dhamma

Postby tiltbillings » Thu Mar 15, 2012 4:12 am


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Re: The Buddha's Challenge in Teaching the Dhamma

Postby retrofuturist » Thu Mar 15, 2012 4:13 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Re: The Buddha's Challenge in Teaching the Dhamma

Postby mikenz66 » Thu Mar 15, 2012 4:18 am


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Re: The Buddha's Challenge in Teaching the Dhamma

Postby retrofuturist » Thu Mar 15, 2012 4:25 am

Greetings Mike,

Interesting - what do you make of that?

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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kirk5a
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Re: The Buddha's Challenge in Teaching the Dhamma

Postby kirk5a » Thu Mar 15, 2012 4:26 am

"When one thing is practiced & pursued, ignorance is abandoned, clear knowing arises, the conceit 'I am' is abandoned, latent tendencies are uprooted, fetters are abandoned. Which one thing? Mindfulness immersed in the body." -AN 1.230

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Re: The Buddha's Challenge in Teaching the Dhamma

Postby retrofuturist » Thu Mar 15, 2012 5:03 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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mikenz66
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Re: The Buddha's Challenge in Teaching the Dhamma

Postby mikenz66 » Thu Mar 15, 2012 8:21 am



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