Small bomb hits Indonesian temple

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Grigoris
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Re: Small bomb hits Indonesian temple

Postby Grigoris » Tue Aug 06, 2013 9:10 am

"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
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yegyal
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Re: Small bomb hits Indonesian temple

Postby yegyal » Tue Aug 06, 2013 12:26 pm

Today is the anniversary of Hiroshima.

Nothing else to add, but I just thought that fact might bring a little perspective to a thread titled "Small bomb hits Indonesian temple" in which people are arguing that terrorism is worse than military actions.

JKhedrup
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Re: Small bomb hits Indonesian temple

Postby JKhedrup » Tue Aug 06, 2013 2:09 pm

Last edited by JKhedrup on Tue Aug 06, 2013 2:58 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Small bomb hits Indonesian temple

Postby greentara » Tue Aug 06, 2013 2:46 pm

j khedrup, "I wonder why there are no Buddhists or Hindu places of worship there, despite the large migrant worker populations in Saudi Arabia from India and Thailand, for example. Could it be because of these draconian policies?" Well you've answered it yourself....of course thats the reason.
I don't mind a country that retains it's traditions and faith based cohesion and doesn't cave into the latest passing fad but some Islamic countries are totally rigid and unbending in their views.

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Re: Small bomb hits Indonesian temple

Postby greentara » Tue Aug 06, 2013 2:54 pm

Greg, Yes Christian churches were built on top of Ancient Greek temples. Christianity and Islam have always needed to dominate and show whose 'top dog' You can clearly see the battle for souls taking place in Africa between these two great religions right now, as we speak!

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Re: Small bomb hits Indonesian temple

Postby JKhedrup » Tue Aug 06, 2013 3:04 pm

Which is exactly why dharmic religions like Budddhism and Hinduism are at risk. Traditional Islam, and Christianity in its pure form, advocate that conversion is the only way to save souls. And Islam functions not only as a religion, but also as a political system. The Saudi man I spoke to said this is something that Westerners simply don't understand. Islam is not simply a personal religious faith, but also a political and judicial system. To not understand that context means that we will not understand the current tension between the Western and Islamic worlds.

Personally, if the Dharmic traditions are at risk of disappearing (which I think they may well be), I will speak in their defense, but never advocate violence. The truth of the matter is that according to the texts of Islam, Christianity and Judaism we are idolaters and false believers. So conservatives of these faiths will not respect the rights of our dharmic communities. That is the bottom line.

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Grigoris
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Re: Small bomb hits Indonesian temple

Postby Grigoris » Tue Aug 06, 2013 4:11 pm

"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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Dan74
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Re: Small bomb hits Indonesian temple

Postby Dan74 » Tue Aug 06, 2013 4:16 pm

Interesting discussion, thank you, Gents. Good to put things in perspective and try to see things "from the other side." But also good not to shy away from looking at the theological support for this phenomenon.

On a positive note you may want to take a look at this (from from our local news):


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Grigoris
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Re: Small bomb hits Indonesian temple

Postby Grigoris » Tue Aug 06, 2013 4:44 pm

"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

JKhedrup
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Re: Small bomb hits Indonesian temple

Postby JKhedrup » Tue Aug 06, 2013 11:09 pm


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Johnny Dangerous
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Re: Small bomb hits Indonesian temple

Postby Johnny Dangerous » Tue Aug 06, 2013 11:15 pm

"it must be coming from the mouthy mastermind of raunchy rapper, Johnny Dangerous”

-Jeff H.

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Re: Small bomb hits Indonesian temple

Postby Wayfarer » Wed Aug 07, 2013 3:00 am

Some Muslims believe there is a 'holy war' between the godless-atheist West and Islam, that the former is bent on destroying religion and traditional Muslim culture by the imposition of what they see as alien and fundamentally godless values. Although I totally and completely abhor and repudiate their repulsive violence and utter disrespect for the sanctity of human life, I do understand why they think that, and I don't think there are any easy solutions to it.

I have found two very interesting essays on this difficult subject written from a Buddhist perspective. One is David Loy's - be warned, not an easy read. Another is Zoketsu Norman Fischer in response to the 9/11 attack. Both very deep reflections on the complex relationship between identity, religion, and modernity.
In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities; in the expert's mind there are few ~ Suzuki-roshi

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Re: Small bomb hits Indonesian temple

Postby plwk » Wed Aug 07, 2013 6:36 am

On another note....



To all Muslims, Happy & Blessed Eid Al-Fitr tomorrow, 8th Aug 2013

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Re: Small bomb hits Indonesian temple

Postby greentara » Wed Aug 07, 2013 7:17 am

Sufiism is wonderful but mainstream Islam is too unbending. In hinduism the mundane and the sacred are more fluid ,coming as purusha-prakriti. Buddhism also emerges with fluidity but without the baggage of the the caste system.

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Re: Small bomb hits Indonesian temple

Postby JKhedrup » Wed Aug 07, 2013 1:50 pm


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Re: Small bomb hits Indonesian temple

Postby Johnny Dangerous » Wed Aug 07, 2013 4:15 pm

I can see where you're coming from, I still think though that this concept that militant Islam has somehow reacted in this really unique way to imperialism is short sighted, look at the Khmer Rouge, or MIlitias in Colombia massacring whole villages and stuff like that (often trained by my country!), both related in unique ways to western imperialism, and both guilty of atrocity on the same level. I'm sure we could find others if we liked too. People go to Islamic fundamentalism today for the same reason people go to other ideologies (like third world Communist liberation, or right-wing ideology in Colombia) that give them hope - perceived righting of wrongs, and hope for material well being.

Anyway the point is, others have reacted with nearly indiscriminate violence both in the support, and opposition of Imperialism, so you're looking for things unique to this Islamic terrorism, violence alone ain't it. Personally the only unique thing I see is that they are exceptionally good at the "propaganda of the deed" bit. Is it related to the religion..only in the sense that the religion is also a part of various civilizations, it's hard to point to the theocracy thing as unique, since other religions also have had this in the past, and again ..arguably some still do. Again, i'm not sure what you'd call modern Zionism, maybe on a line between ethnic and religious governance, but it is undeniably similar in some ways.

I don't think Islam is guiltless by any means, but there is much more complexity there than just what is or isn't written in the Koran. Some sort of Islamic reformation might help to lessen the appeal of fundamentalism a little, but whenever there are people willing to do stuff like that, there are usually things in place other than religious proclamation and belief that are keeping them going. So I think you onto something with the poverty angle, but the scriptural angle is a weak one, it becomes a chicken or the egg thing.
"it must be coming from the mouthy mastermind of raunchy rapper, Johnny Dangerous”

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JKhedrup
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Re: Small bomb hits Indonesian temple

Postby JKhedrup » Wed Aug 07, 2013 7:28 pm

Both sides of the debate eloquently presented:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rh34Xsq7D_A

The speakers include Zeba Khan, Maajid Nawaz, Ayaan Hirsi Ali and Doulas Murray.

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Re: Small bomb hits Indonesian temple

Postby JKhedrup » Wed Aug 07, 2013 7:37 pm


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Re: Small bomb hits Indonesian temple

Postby Wayfarer » Thu Aug 08, 2013 12:14 am

In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities; in the expert's mind there are few ~ Suzuki-roshi

Ramon1920
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Re: Small bomb hits Indonesian temple

Postby Ramon1920 » Sat Aug 10, 2013 2:00 am



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