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PostPosted: Mon Aug 23, 2010 10:08 am 
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I have heard different pronunciations of the Kalachakra heart mantra. Some lamas pronounce the nasal sound after "ha", others lamas pronounce it after "ya", and apparently there are also lamas that don't pronounce the nasal sound neither after "ha" neither after "ya". I was wondering whether there is a traditional way in Jonang school for the pronunciation of the Kalachakra mantra. Any clue?

ZC


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2010 11:49 am 
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It should pronounced: " Om Hamkshmlvrya svaha "!
Look at the home page of Alexander Berzin, in the section on Kalachakra, and you'll find it there, the explanation of the pronounciation.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 08, 2010 4:52 am 
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how you recieved transmission is how you should prononce it. there is no other way than that.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 23, 2010 11:55 am 
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Aemilius wrote:
It should pronounced: " Om Hamkshmlvrya svaha "!
Look at the home page of Alexander Berzin, in the section on Kalachakra, and you'll find it there, the explanation of the pronounciation.


but that's Sanskrit, not the actual Tibetan pronunciation. For example look here :http://www.kalacakra.org/namcu/namcu.htm
"Banda Gelek explains that the visarga and anusvāra are both parts of letters, as indeed they are in the writing of Indian languages. He explains that the nāda on the top indicates the vowel "a" that is inherent in all letters, but properly only pronounced with the last "ya". The anusvāra indicates that the last "ya" is nasalised, such as in the pronunciation of syllables such as "oṃ" and "hūṃ". This means that an approximate pronunciation would be: "ha cha ma la wa ra yam", rather than "ham cha ma la wa ra ya". The visarga, which is usually represented as two small circles by the side of a character, represents that the pronunciation is aspirated – stronger breathing out of air"

and here: http://kalachakranet.org/text_david_rei ... ocial.html
"The founder and former longtime Director of the Central Institute of Higher Tibetan Studies is Samdhong Rinpoche, currently Prime Minister of the Tibetan Government-in-Exile. Although I knew that Tibetans studying there had to learn Sanskrit pronunciation, it was still a pleasant surprise to me to hear Samdhong Rinpoche pronounce the Kalacakra heart mantra in the Sanskrit fashion. He did this during a break in our 1997 discussions on his ideas of how to have a nonviolent society. When he pronounced the nasal after the last syllable, as is required in Sanskrit, rather than after the first syllable, as is the current practice among Tibetan Lamas, I expressed my surprise. He replied that of course he followed the Sanskrit pronunciation. Why wouldn't he when the original is now available? Well, that certainly sums it up for me."


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 2:56 pm 
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Thank you for some very interesting information, myself experienced a mental earthquake when I encountered Alex Berzin's version of the mantra and tried to say it aloud!! That is a transmission too!!

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 9:23 am 
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What Banda Gelek and Samdhong Rimpoche say is true, but not the whole of it. You have to understand that sanskrit is built of syllables, unlike latin and european languages that are built of letters. In sanskrit all consonants are syllables that contain the primal vocal "a", like: ka kha ga gha etc... Thus in the Kalachakra mantra after the initial OM there is a compound syllable that consists of a cluster of consonants followed by the inherent vocal "a". Normally there is only the anusvara or the visarga, thus you have for example HRIM or HRIH. You never see anusvara and visarga both affecting the same syllable or the same vocal of a syllable. Connecting them both with HRI would be nonexistent, it does seem to happen in the Kalachakra mantra syllable. There is some justification for connecting the anusvara with the consonant "h", I think, you then lose some of the syllable structure, the one syllable structure is wholly lost in the pronunciation: ha ksha ma etc..., see ?

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 3:38 pm 
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Dear Friends

om svasti

It is true that in general Jonangpas favor Sanskrit over Tibetan pronunciation, since the Lineage has always retained a close connection to the Indian sources of the teachings.

However, a mantra is not a 'magical' formula --that is, it is not the sound itself (as is believed by some Tirthikas) that produces an effect. When the blessings of the lineage as conveyed through the formula are combined with the faithful practice of the disciple, the mantra bears fruit.

My Root Teacher always reminded us: "Technique is a vehicle for intention."

In the Jonang lineage, the Kalachakra Heart Mantra must be transmited directly from the mouth of the Vajra Master to the ear of the disciple. One who has received it --and is therefore empowered to recite it-- will have no questions about the pronunciation.

mangalam
Tashi Nyima

http://greatmiddleway.wordpress.com/

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Tashi Nyima

http://greatmiddleway.wordpress.com/


Last edited by Tashi Nyima on Thu Nov 04, 2010 5:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 3:56 pm 
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Tashi Nyima wrote:

In the Jonang lineage, the Kalachakra Heart Mantra must be transmited directly from the mouth a Vajra Master to the ear of the disciple. One who has received it --and is therefore empowered to recite it-- will have no questions about the pronunciation.

mangalam
Tashi Nyima

http://greatmiddleway.wordpress.com/



exactly my point.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 1:27 pm 
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It is possible to retain the thinking faculty even when you have received the oral transmission of Kalachakra.

kindly yours

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