Commonalities among all Buddhist traditions

General discussion, particularly exploring the Dharma in the modern world.
User avatar
Sönam
Posts: 1999
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 2:11 pm
Location: France
Contact:

Re: Commonalities among all Buddhist traditions

Post by Sönam »

What ever tradition one practice, the teaching about the 4 NT is enough, in itself. Other teachings are secondary (complementary) because one has not be able to realize it . What ever tradition practiced, if one realizes the sense of this teaching, one immediately realizes the sense of Buddhadharma, one realizes Buddhahood.

Sönam
By understanding everything you perceive from the perspective of the view, you are freed from the constraints of philosophical beliefs.
By understanding that any and all mental activity is meditation, you are freed from arbitrary divisions between formal sessions and postmeditation activity.
- Longchen Rabjam -
User avatar
Rick
Posts: 2628
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2013 1:05 am

Re: Commonalities among all Buddhist traditions

Post by Rick »

Sönam wrote:What ever tradition one practice, the teaching about the 4 NT is enough, in itself. Other teachings are secondary (complementary) because one has not be able to realize it . What ever tradition practiced, if one realizes the sense of this teaching, one immediately realizes the sense of Buddhadharma, one realizes Buddhahood.

Sönam
Interesting. Aren't the Four Noble Truths the first thing Buddha taught his buddies after being enlightened?
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily ...
User avatar
Sönam
Posts: 1999
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 2:11 pm
Location: France
Contact:

Re: Commonalities among all Buddhist traditions

Post by Sönam »

rachmiel wrote:
Sönam wrote:What ever tradition one practice, the teaching about the 4 NT is enough, in itself. Other teachings are secondary (complementary) because one has not be able to realize it . What ever tradition practiced, if one realizes the sense of this teaching, one immediately realizes the sense of Buddhadharma, one realizes Buddhahood.

Sönam
Interesting. Aren't the Four Noble Truths the first thing Buddha taught his buddies after being enlightened?
absolutely ... it is a direct teaching!
By understanding everything you perceive from the perspective of the view, you are freed from the constraints of philosophical beliefs.
By understanding that any and all mental activity is meditation, you are freed from arbitrary divisions between formal sessions and postmeditation activity.
- Longchen Rabjam -
Martin007

Re: Commonalities among all Buddhist traditions

Post by Martin007 »

gregkavarnos wrote:
porpoise wrote:Not all traditions use the 8-fold path, the 4th Noble Truth. Not all traditions use the 5 precepts or 3 jewels.
The question was: which Buddhist tradition does not have the 4 Noble truths? Your statement does not answer my question. So let me ask which Buddhist traditions do not "use" the Four Noble Truths?
I spent many years in Tibetan and Zen traditions and can't remember the 4NT even being mentioned, let alone identified as a key teaching. And I don't think they recieve any attention in traditions like Nichiren and Pureland. In fact Theravada is the only tradition I know of where the 4NT are regarded as a central teaching, or where the 8-fold path is practiced.

I'd agree with the idea that the 4NT are implicit in most traditions, but that's rather different from saying that they're a central common feature.
Martin007

Re: Commonalities among all Buddhist traditions

Post by Martin007 »

Sönam wrote:What ever tradition one practice, the teaching about the 4 NT is enough, in itself.
So are you saying we can disregard everything else that is taught in all the various Buddhist traditions?
JKhedrup
Posts: 2328
Joined: Wed May 30, 2012 8:28 am

Re: Commonalities among all Buddhist traditions

Post by JKhedrup »

I spent many years in Tibetan and Zen traditions and can't remember the 4NT even being mentioned
Seriously? I haven't attended a longer teaching from a Tibetan master without them being mentioned- and that is across three of the Tibetan traditions. Perhaps I will be corrected in this, but the 4NT are still essential in the direct meditation traditions like Dzogchen ( Khenpos on 4NT in Dzogchen http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPDEqjeAG9o) And certainly, in the presentation of HHDL and HH Karmapa, the 4 Arya Truths form the crux of any introductory teaching.

How else do we understand suffering, its cause, the possibility of freedom, and the path to freedom?
The Buddhist teachings themselves arose out of a profound wish to provide a path of freedom from suffering.
User avatar
Sönam
Posts: 1999
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 2:11 pm
Location: France
Contact:

Re: Commonalities among all Buddhist traditions

Post by Sönam »

porpoise wrote:
Sönam wrote:What ever tradition one practice, the teaching about the 4 NT is enough, in itself.
So are you saying we can disregard everything else that is taught in all the various Buddhist traditions?
I did'nt said "diregard", you just cut an important part of it.
My complete sentence was "What ever tradition one practice, the teaching about the 4 NT is enough, in itself. Other teachings are secondary (complementary) because one has not be able to realize it . What ever tradition practiced, if one realizes the sense of this teaching, one immediately realizes the sense of Buddhadharma, one realizes Buddhahood."

Sönam
By understanding everything you perceive from the perspective of the view, you are freed from the constraints of philosophical beliefs.
By understanding that any and all mental activity is meditation, you are freed from arbitrary divisions between formal sessions and postmeditation activity.
- Longchen Rabjam -
User avatar
Grigoris
Former staff member
Posts: 21906
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 9:27 pm
Location: Greece

Re: Commonalities among all Buddhist traditions

Post by Grigoris »

A fantastic series of teachings on the 4NT by HHDL
phpBB [video]
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
Martin007

Re: Commonalities among all Buddhist traditions

Post by Martin007 »

JKhedrup wrote:
I spent many years in Tibetan and Zen traditions and can't remember the 4NT even being mentioned
Seriously?
Yes, seriously. Admittedly it was a quite a long time ago, and if there were passing references I might have forgotten them.
User avatar
Sönam
Posts: 1999
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 2:11 pm
Location: France
Contact:

Re: Commonalities among all Buddhist traditions

Post by Sönam »

JKhedrup wrote:Perhaps I will be corrected in this, but the 4NT are still essential in the direct meditation traditions like Dzogchen ...
You are of course perfectly right ... the point in Dzogchen is that the ignorance principe of twelve interdependent causations is described as "apprehending appearances as others, not realizing them as self-radiance" (Ma-Rig-Pa).

Sönam
By understanding everything you perceive from the perspective of the view, you are freed from the constraints of philosophical beliefs.
By understanding that any and all mental activity is meditation, you are freed from arbitrary divisions between formal sessions and postmeditation activity.
- Longchen Rabjam -
Martin007

Re: Commonalities among all Buddhist traditions

Post by Martin007 »

Sönam wrote:
porpoise wrote:
Sönam wrote:What ever tradition one practice, the teaching about the 4 NT is enough, in itself.
So are you saying we can disregard everything else that is taught in all the various Buddhist traditions?
I did'nt said "diregard", you just cut an important part of it.
My complete sentence was "What ever tradition one practice, the teaching about the 4 NT is enough, in itself. Other teachings are secondary (complementary) because one has not be able to realize it . What ever tradition practiced, if one realizes the sense of this teaching, one immediately realizes the sense of Buddhadharma, one realizes Buddhahood."
I'm still not clear what you mean by "secondary" and "complementary". Are you saying that the teachings and practices of all traditions are basically just methods to realise the 4NTs?
User avatar
Sönam
Posts: 1999
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 2:11 pm
Location: France
Contact:

Re: Commonalities among all Buddhist traditions

Post by Sönam »

porpoise wrote:
Sönam wrote:
I did'nt said "diregard", you just cut an important part of it.
My complete sentence was "What ever tradition one practice, the teaching about the 4 NT is enough, in itself. Other teachings are secondary (complementary) because one has not be able to realize it . What ever tradition practiced, if one realizes the sense of this teaching, one immediately realizes the sense of Buddhadharma, one realizes Buddhahood."
I'm still not clear what you mean by "secondary" and "complementary". Are you saying that the teachings and practices of all traditions are basically just methods to realise the 4NTs?
Yes ... what else are you expecting?

Sönam
By understanding everything you perceive from the perspective of the view, you are freed from the constraints of philosophical beliefs.
By understanding that any and all mental activity is meditation, you are freed from arbitrary divisions between formal sessions and postmeditation activity.
- Longchen Rabjam -
Martin007

Re: Commonalities among all Buddhist traditions

Post by Martin007 »

Sönam wrote:
porpoise wrote:
Sönam wrote:
I did'nt said "diregard", you just cut an important part of it.
My complete sentence was "What ever tradition one practice, the teaching about the 4 NT is enough, in itself. Other teachings are secondary (complementary) because one has not be able to realize it . What ever tradition practiced, if one realizes the sense of this teaching, one immediately realizes the sense of Buddhadharma, one realizes Buddhahood."
I'm still not clear what you mean by "secondary" and "complementary". Are you saying that the teachings and practices of all traditions are basically just methods to realise the 4NTs?
Yes ... what else are you expecting?

Sönam
It's news to me. What you say does make sense, but like I said I don't remember that being made atall clear while I was actually involved in Tibetan Buddhism, and I've always associated the 4NT primarily with Theravada Buddism. Anyway, I stand corrected.
Admin_PC
Former staff member
Posts: 4860
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2012 11:17 pm

Re: Commonalities among all Buddhist traditions

Post by Admin_PC »

porpoise wrote:And I don't think they recieve any attention in traditions like Nichiren and Pureland.
Can't speak for Nichiren, but liberation from the Dukkha of Samsara is the whole point of Pure Land and Sukhavati (dukkha and sukha being antonyms). This would be impossible without the 4NTs.
User avatar
Astus
Former staff member
Posts: 8881
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 11:22 pm
Location: Budapest

Re: Commonalities among all Buddhist traditions

Post by Astus »

rachmiel wrote:Dependent Origination
Eightfold Path
Five Precepts
Five Skandhas
Four Dharma Seals
Four Noble Truths
Karma
The Three Universal Seals
Three Jewels
Threefold training of Precepts, Meditation and Wisdom
Twelve Links of Dependent Origination
A few more:

12 ayatanas & 18 dhatus
5/6 realms
37 factors of enlightenment
liberation as arhat, pratyekabuddha, buddha

Basically you can take everything that were taught in the Vinaya and Agama/Nikaya as common teachings. The first strong differences occurred with the various abhidharma works and then other developments like the Bodhisattva/Vaipulya Pitaka, etc.
1 Myriad dharmas are only mind.
Mind is unobtainable.
What is there to seek?

2 If the Buddha-Nature is seen,
there will be no seeing of a nature in any thing.

3 Neither cultivation nor seated meditation —
this is the pure Chan of Tathagata.

4 With sudden enlightenment to Tathagata Chan,
the six paramitas and myriad means
are complete within that essence.


1 Huangbo, T2012Ap381c1 2 Nirvana Sutra, T374p521b3; tr. Yamamoto 3 Mazu, X1321p3b23; tr. J. Jia 4 Yongjia, T2014p395c14; tr. from "The Sword of Wisdom"
User avatar
Thomas Amundsen
Posts: 2034
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2011 2:50 am
Location: Helena, MT
Contact:

Re: Commonalities among all Buddhist traditions

Post by Thomas Amundsen »

Sönam wrote:
JKhedrup wrote:Perhaps I will be corrected in this, but the 4NT are still essential in the direct meditation traditions like Dzogchen ...
You are of course perfectly right ... the point in Dzogchen is that the ignorance principe of twelve interdependent causations is described as "apprehending appearances as others, not realizing them as self-radiance" (Ma-Rig-Pa).

Sönam
:good:
User avatar
Appareo
Posts: 18
Joined: Wed Aug 07, 2013 5:26 pm

Re: Commonalities among all Buddhist traditions

Post by Appareo »

I have a rather limited knowledge on the different buddhist practicions, but for me the most important and central aspects are the four noble truths, the noble eight-fold path, and some concepts revolving around meditation, mindfulness, awareness, love, energies, presence (being NOW) and reflection. And ofcourse, liberation from the clasps of the ego.

But as Seishin wisely said, we each have our own path, with our own truths. I Strongly believe that we always decide and are responisble for our reality, and thus we can only progress and achieve as much as we truly believe we can.
shaunc
Posts: 883
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2013 8:10 am

Re: Commonalities among all Buddhist traditions

Post by shaunc »

Have we reached an agreement/conclusion on this topic yet. Slightly off topic, but regarding the 5 precepts, has anyone read the 14 precepts taught by Thich nhat hanh.
plwk
Posts: 2932
Joined: Thu Feb 25, 2010 10:41 am

Re: Commonalities among all Buddhist traditions

Post by plwk »

What are the commonalities among *all* Buddhist traditions?
I.e. what assertions/conclusions would virtually any Buddhist of any school/lineage/nationality agree on?
Well, on another note, the more grounded answer would be: all would love more sponsors & free labor... in a gist...
Post Reply

Return to “Dharma in Everyday Life”