Kagyu, Nyingma, Zen, Shamatha/Vipashyana, Mahamudra, Ngondro

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Kagyu, Nyingma, Zen, Shamatha/Vipashyana, Mahamudra, Ngondro

Postby sherabzangpo » Wed Jul 31, 2013 9:32 pm

A few questions:

1) Is Kagyu (Mahamudra) the most like Zen, or Nyingma (Dzogchen)? I've heard conflicting views.

2) From among the five main Tibetan schools, which emphasizes shamatha/vipashyana the most? I'm not talking about the tantric idea of shamatha-vipashyana, but rather general Mahayana shamatha-vipashyana. My feeling is that it might be Kagyu. I realize that this largely depends on the teacher, but generally speaking, and especially traditionally, since modern Tibetan Buddhist teachers of all lineages who are teaching in the West seem to be emphasizing it more. I have not seen that it is really emphasized that much in Geluk generally (except theoretically in the Lamrim etc.) and also not really that much in Nyingma. I am curious if Kagyu might be more oriented in this way than the others.

3) Are there any Mahamudra teachings that one can receive without doing Mahamudra ngondro? I have heard about Sutra Mahamudra, etc.

4) Are there any prominent Kagyu teachers who teach higher Mahamudra without requiring the completion of ngondro?

Thanks for any advice.
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Re: Kagyu, Nyingma, Zen, Shamatha/Vipashyana, Mahamudra, Ngo

Postby Jinzang » Thu Aug 01, 2013 1:48 am

sherabzangpo wrote:A few questions:

1) Is Kagyu (Mahamudra) the most like Zen, or Nyingma (Dzogchen)? I've heard conflicting views.

2) From among the five main Tibetan schools, which emphasizes shamatha/vipashyana the most? I'm not talking about the tantric idea of shamatha-vipashyana, but rather general Mahayana shamatha-vipashyana. My feeling is that it might be Kagyu. I realize that this largely depends on the teacher, but generally speaking, and especially traditionally, since modern Tibetan Buddhist teachers of all lineages who are teaching in the West seem to be emphasizing it more. I have not seen that it is really emphasized that much in Geluk generally (except theoretically in the Lamrim etc.) and also not really that much in Nyingma. I am curious if Kagyu might be more oriented in this way than the others.

3) Are there any Mahamudra teachings that one can receive without doing Mahamudra ngondro? I have heard about Sutra Mahamudra, etc.

4) Are there any prominent Kagyu teachers who teach higher Mahamudra without requiring the completion of ngondro?

Thanks for any advice.


The short answer to your question is that it all depends on the teacher and the student. There is no one way to teach mahamudra. Shambhala is very big on the practice of shamatha, but they also have a lot of hoops to jump through. Get to know a teacher personally if you want the teacher to treat you as a special case. And don't be in such a rush, practice takes time and effort and there's no shortcut for that.
Lamrim, lojong, and mahamudra are the unmistaken path.
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Re: Kagyu, Nyingma, Zen, Shamatha/Vipashyana, Mahamudra, Ngo

Postby philji » Thu Aug 01, 2013 9:20 am

From my own experience I would say that Mingyur Rinpoche(Kagyu) teaches a gradual path of Shamata and vippasana training though his Joy of Living courses...some of which are available online.
These teachings were previously part of a Mahamudra. Training that he taught but he is now teaching these as stand alone teachings now... See www.tergar.com for more nfo. :applause:
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Re: Kagyu, Nyingma, Zen, Shamatha/Vipashyana, Mahamudra, Ngo

Postby Silent Bob » Thu Aug 01, 2013 7:04 pm

When he first began teaching in N America in the late 80's, Thrangu Rinpoche would occasionally give industrial-strength pointing out instructions to groups of students, whether they'd completed ngondro or not. He later told me that he preferred instead to have students work through the analytic stages of mahamudra examination in their practice because their subsequent understanding would be deeper and better grounded than with a one-shot description of the nature of mind and that there would be no potential for misinterpretation.

Chris
"All the sublime teachings, so profound--to throw away one and then grab yet another will not bear even a single fruit. Persevere, therefore, in simply one."
--Dudjom Rinpoche, "Nectar for the Hearts of Fortunate Disciples. Song No. 8"
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Re: Kagyu, Nyingma, Zen, Shamatha/Vipashyana, Mahamudra, Ngo

Postby Konchog1 » Thu Aug 01, 2013 8:29 pm

sherabzangpo wrote:A few questions:

1) Is Kagyu (Mahamudra) the most like Zen, or Nyingma (Dzogchen)? I've heard conflicting views.

2) From among the five main Tibetan schools, which emphasizes shamatha/vipashyana the most? I'm not talking about the tantric idea of shamatha-vipashyana, but rather general Mahayana shamatha-vipashyana. My feeling is that it might be Kagyu. I realize that this largely depends on the teacher, but generally speaking, and especially traditionally, since modern Tibetan Buddhist teachers of all lineages who are teaching in the West seem to be emphasizing it more. I have not seen that it is really emphasized that much in Geluk generally (except theoretically in the Lamrim etc.) and also not really that much in Nyingma. I am curious if Kagyu might be more oriented in this way than the others.

3) Are there any Mahamudra teachings that one can receive without doing Mahamudra ngondro? I have heard about Sutra Mahamudra, etc.

4) Are there any prominent Kagyu teachers who teach higher Mahamudra without requiring the completion of ngondro?

Thanks for any advice.
1. Imo Mahamudra.

2. Kagyu. Generally as a basis for Mahamudra it seems.

3. http://www.mahamudracenter.org/mmcmembermeditationguide.pdf Clarifying the Natural State by Dakpo Tashi Namgyal is also generally recommended, specifically Garchen Rinpoche recommends it.
Equanimity is the ground. Love is the moisture. Compassion is the seed. Bodhicitta is the result.

-Paraphrase of Khensur Rinpoche Lobsang Tsephel citing the Guhyasamaja Tantra

"All memories and thoughts are the union of emptiness and knowing, the Mind.
Without attachment, self-liberating, like a snake in a knot.
Through the qualities of meditating in that way,
Mental obscurations are purified and the dharmakaya is attained."

-Ra Lotsawa, All-pervading Melodious Drumbeats
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