Mara

Whether you're exploring Buddhism for the first time or you're already on the path, feel free to ask questions of any kind here.

Mara

Postby Green5 » Thu Aug 01, 2013 7:50 am

Hello,

I know that the subconscious mind may animate Devils and Demons.

In Buddhism, Mara is considered to be real?

Which Buddhist master other than Buddha combatted Mara?

Thx

Pars
Green5
 
Posts: 16
Joined: Thu Aug 01, 2013 7:35 am
Location: Turkey

Re: Mara

Postby Sherab Dorje » Thu Aug 01, 2013 8:13 am

Welcome Green5!

Some Buddhists believe Mara is an actual existing being. They then posit four sperate Mara (which are then condensed into a single figure): Devaputra Mara, Skhanda Mara, Klesha Mara and Mrityu Mara .

Other Buddhists interpret the Mara in the following way: Devaputra Mara is the seduction of the bliss of meditative absorption (ie attachment and grasping for this bliss). Skhanda Mara is the belief that the five aggregates constitute a self. Klesha Mara is merely an anthorpomorphic representation of our own negative mental qualities and Mrityu Mara is death itself.

Other Buddhists, due to their realisation of the dependently arising nature of all samsaric phenomena, recognise that ultimately there is no Mara, and no self that is a victim of Maras actions.

Sorry for all the wiki links, but I don't have time to deal with the issue in further depth right now. I am sure that you (and others) can take it from here anyway.

Being a Buddhist means to battle Mara every single moment of the day, you don't have to be a master to do so, you just have to pick yourself up and dust yourself off after every ass-whipping, until you yourself overcome Mara.
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
User avatar
Sherab Dorje
Global Moderator
 
Posts: 9292
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 9:27 pm
Location: Greece

Re: Mara

Postby lobster » Thu Aug 01, 2013 8:33 am

Green5 wrote:Hello,

I know that the subconscious mind may animate Devils and Demons.

In Buddhism, Mara is considered to be real?

Which Buddhist master other than Buddha combatted Mara?

Thx

Pars


What do you mean by animate? What do you mean by real?
Do you feel focussing on protective practices would be more productive? :yinyang:

Which ones? :popcorn:
User avatar
lobster
 
Posts: 951
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2012 9:06 pm

Re: Mara

Postby Green5 » Thu Aug 01, 2013 9:31 am

lobster wrote:
Green5 wrote:Hello,

I know that the subconscious mind may animate Devils and Demons.

In Buddhism, Mara is considered to be real?

Which Buddhist master other than Buddha combatted Mara?

Thx

Pars


What do you mean by animate? What do you mean by real?
Do you feel focussing on protective practices would be more productive? :yinyang:

Which ones? :popcorn:


By animate I mean that it is a subconscious dream. You communicate with a dream character, this may however be very dangerous.
Green5
 
Posts: 16
Joined: Thu Aug 01, 2013 7:35 am
Location: Turkey

Re: Mara

Postby lobster » Thu Aug 01, 2013 7:31 pm

Green5 wrote:. . . this may however be very dangerous.


Maybe.
I tend to focus on non dangerous dharma.

So what are you asking and why?

I don't feel this is just a point of interest?

:popcorn:
User avatar
lobster
 
Posts: 951
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2012 9:06 pm

Re: Mara

Postby seeker242 » Thu Aug 01, 2013 10:53 pm

Green5 wrote:
Which Buddhist master other than Buddha combatted Mara?



Going to go with "all of them" as battling Mara and winning is what makes them a master to begin with. :smile:
One should not kill any living being, nor cause it to be killed, nor should one incite any other to kill. Do never injure any being, whether strong or weak, in this entire universe!
User avatar
seeker242
 
Posts: 691
Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2012 2:50 pm
Location: South Florida, USA

Re: Mara

Postby Green5 » Fri Aug 02, 2013 10:32 am

gregkavarnos wrote:Welcome Green5!

Some Buddhists believe Mara is an actual existing being. They then posit four sperate Mara (which are then condensed into a single figure): Devaputra Mara, Skhanda Mara, Klesha Mara and Mrityu Mara .

Other Buddhists interpret the Mara in the following way: Devaputra Mara is the seduction of the bliss of meditative absorption (ie attachment and grasping for this bliss). Skhanda Mara is the belief that the five aggregates constitute a self. Klesha Mara is merely an anthorpomorphic representation of our own negative mental qualities and Mrityu Mara is death itself.

Other Buddhists, due to their realisation of the dependently arising nature of all samsaric phenomena, recognise that ultimately there is no Mara, and no self that is a victim of Maras actions.

Sorry for all the wiki links, but I don't have time to deal with the issue in further depth right now. I am sure that you (and others) can take it from here anyway.

Being a Buddhist means to battle Mara every single moment of the day, you don't have to be a master to do so, you just have to pick yourself up and dust yourself off after every ass-whipping, until you yourself overcome Mara.


Thank you for the links and information.

Pars
Green5
 
Posts: 16
Joined: Thu Aug 01, 2013 7:35 am
Location: Turkey

Re: Mara

Postby Green5 » Fri Aug 02, 2013 10:43 am

lobster wrote:
Green5 wrote:. . . this may however be very dangerous.


Maybe.
I tend to focus on non dangerous dharma.

So what are you asking and why?

I don't feel this is just a point of interest?

:popcorn:


My question is: why Buddha battled Mara.

The correct approach is to admit that all the malicious activity are my own doing and forgive myself for this.

If Buddha put the blame on Mara, the self-forgiveness is not done.

Please note that this is a very serious topic to me.

IMHO the correct approach to this problem is not fighting the Devil but developing a quality that I call "dream resistance". I.e. avoiding to be absorbed by dreams and stopping to animate them.

Pars
Green5
 
Posts: 16
Joined: Thu Aug 01, 2013 7:35 am
Location: Turkey

Re: Mara

Postby Sherab Dorje » Fri Aug 02, 2013 12:57 pm

Green5 wrote:My question is: why Buddha battled Mara.

The correct approach is to admit that all the malicious activity are my own doing and forgive myself for this.

If Buddha put the blame on Mara, the self-forgiveness is not done.

Please note that this is a very serious topic to me.

IMHO the correct approach to this problem is not fighting the Devil but developing a quality that I call "dream resistance". I.e. avoiding to be absorbed by dreams and stopping to animate them.

Pars
1. It is metaphorical. 2. The battle is against ignorance as the root of "evil". Ignorance is the animating factor.
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
User avatar
Sherab Dorje
Global Moderator
 
Posts: 9292
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 9:27 pm
Location: Greece

Re: Mara

Postby Green5 » Sat Aug 03, 2013 7:52 am

gregkavarnos wrote:
Green5 wrote:My question is: why Buddha battled Mara.

The correct approach is to admit that all the malicious activity are my own doing and forgive myself for this.

If Buddha put the blame on Mara, the self-forgiveness is not done.

Please note that this is a very serious topic to me.

IMHO the correct approach to this problem is not fighting the Devil but developing a quality that I call "dream resistance". I.e. avoiding to be absorbed by dreams and stopping to animate them.

Pars
1. It is metaphorical. 2. The battle is against ignorance as the root of "evil". Ignorance is the animating factor.


So you mean that Buddha did not really fight Mara.

I heard that he endured energy torture because Mara seriously attacked him by sending an army of Demons.

I suspect that he took his subconscious mind activity for real. This is of course normal. He is the one who opened the path. Now we know more than him and his friends.

I did the same with the Devil (a highly dangerous character animated by the subconscious mind). But I battle him by developing "dream-resistance" as I described above.

So I wonder who else battled Mara and how. I would appreciate any information.

Thanks,

Pars
Green5
 
Posts: 16
Joined: Thu Aug 01, 2013 7:35 am
Location: Turkey

Re: Mara

Postby Sherab Dorje » Sat Aug 03, 2013 7:59 am

Green5 wrote:So you mean that Buddha did not really fight Mara.
Yes he did fight Mara. Have you actually read anything that has been posted here?
I suspect that he took his subconscious mind activity for real. This is of course normal. He is the one who opened the path. Now we know more than him and his friends.
I find it unlikely that you "know" more than a fully enlightened being, but hey, who am I to burst your bubble?
I did the same with the Devil (a highly dangerous character animated by the subconscious mind). But I battle him by developing "dream-resistance" as I described above.
Yes, well... I'll take your word for it.
So I wonder who else battled Mara and how. I would appreciate any information.
You could start by reading the lives of the 84 Mahasiddhas. Really, every single enlightened being has battled and gained victory over Mara. All spiritual seekers battle Mara every day. But hey, I already said that. Are you sure you are reading any of the stuff being posted here?
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
User avatar
Sherab Dorje
Global Moderator
 
Posts: 9292
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 9:27 pm
Location: Greece

Re: Mara

Postby Green5 » Sat Aug 03, 2013 10:23 am

gregkavarnos wrote:
Green5 wrote:So you mean that Buddha did not really fight Mara.
Yes he did fight Mara. Have you actually read anything that has been posted here?
I suspect that he took his subconscious mind activity for real. This is of course normal. He is the one who opened the path. Now we know more than him and his friends.
I find it unlikely that you "know" more than a fully enlightened being, but hey, who am I to burst your bubble?
I did the same with the Devil (a highly dangerous character animated by the subconscious mind). But I battle him by developing "dream-resistance" as I described above.
Yes, well... I'll take your word for it.
So I wonder who else battled Mara and how. I would appreciate any information.
You could start by reading the lives of the 84 Mahasiddhas. Really, every single enlightened being has battled and gained victory over Mara. All spiritual seekers battle Mara every day. But hey, I already said that. Are you sure you are reading any of the stuff being posted here?


Thank you for the links and information. I will read them.

I am just checking if there is a quick answer to this question:

How a Buddhist master battles Mara? What is the method that they employ?

Thank you very much,

Pars
Green5
 
Posts: 16
Joined: Thu Aug 01, 2013 7:35 am
Location: Turkey

Re: Mara

Postby lobster » Sat Aug 03, 2013 12:01 pm

I am just checking if there is a quick answer to this question:

How a Buddhist master battles Mara? What is the method that they employ?


Understood.

There is a quick answer. The method employed comes with years of practice. For now you are safe.

If you need to cook demons and eat them (something that comes with 'hell picnics'), you will first need to meditate without a protective dharma fork . . .

I may have one available in a few years time for you . . .
:woohoo:
User avatar
lobster
 
Posts: 951
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2012 9:06 pm

Re: Mara

Postby Sherab Dorje » Sat Aug 03, 2013 12:23 pm

Green5 wrote:How a Buddhist master battles Mara?
By taming their own mind.
What is the method that they employ?
there are (apparently) 84000 different methods.
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
User avatar
Sherab Dorje
Global Moderator
 
Posts: 9292
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 9:27 pm
Location: Greece

Re: Mara

Postby Green5 » Sat Aug 03, 2013 2:32 pm

Thank you all. I am in fact not talking about meditation. I am working on healing my sunconscious. I just wondered what Buddhists did about Mara.

Cheers,

Pars
Green5
 
Posts: 16
Joined: Thu Aug 01, 2013 7:35 am
Location: Turkey

Re: Mara

Postby Ayu » Sat Aug 03, 2013 3:00 pm

Green5 wrote:Thank you all. I am in fact not talking about meditation. I am working on healing my sunconscious.

Make a sunconciousness out of the subconciousness. :D

I just wondered what Buddhists did about Mara.

I think they look at him. They confess their mistakes and they try to be concious about the three poisons "ignorance, greed and hatered". They don't let him work undercover.
Buddha said something like: "I see you" or "I know you" to Mara - an this weakend Mara to unconditional surrender.
Because, if our mothers, who have been kind to us
From beginningless time, are suffering,
What can we do with (just) our own happiness?
From 10th of 37 Bodhisattva Practices
User avatar
Ayu
 
Posts: 949
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2012 8:25 am
Location: Europe

Re: Mara

Postby lobster » Sat Aug 03, 2013 8:51 pm

Green5 wrote:Thank you all. I am in fact not talking about meditation


:shrug:
Are you?

So when and how did you meet mara? What sort of meditation are you talking about? Is it a sort of theoretical subconscious healing, mara meeting meditation? How does it work? :smile:
User avatar
lobster
 
Posts: 951
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2012 9:06 pm

Re: Mara

Postby Ramon1920 » Sat Aug 03, 2013 9:29 pm

Just like the teachings talk about external thieves and internal thieves(the defilements), the texts also talk about an external Mara and internal maras.

Every practitioner deals with internal maras. That is fair portion of the Buddhist path.

Probably not every practitioner deals with Mara directly. Perhaps Mara has something to do with the social forces in the world today. Mara's interest is in controlling, he's not exactly like the Christian devil, but when people begin to free themselves from worldly desire they can't be controlled in the same way and that bothers Mara and probably a lot of other external beings.

When you have mental afflictions others can manipulate you.
Ramon1920
 
Posts: 231
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2013 9:57 am

Re: Mara

Postby lobster » Sun Aug 04, 2013 10:13 am

I am in fact not talking about meditation


My most humble apologies.
Somehow, probably due to the influence of mara, I read that as:
I am in fact talking about meditation

Gonna have to use my 'dharma fork' . . . Bad! Bad! Mara.
Down the pan with you . . . :toilet:
User avatar
lobster
 
Posts: 951
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2012 9:06 pm

Re: Mara

Postby Green5 » Mon Aug 05, 2013 9:24 am

Ayu wrote:I think they look at him. They confess their mistakes and they try to be concious about the three poisons "ignorance, greed and hatered". They don't let him work undercover.
Buddha said something like: "I see you" or "I know you" to Mara - an this weakend Mara to unconditional surrender.


It may have been easy for Buddha to let go the Mara problem. I personally faced the following problems which made it very difficult to me to let go the Devil problem.

1. Feeling his emotions made him so realistic. It is not like Pink Panther. He talks directly to you and you can feel his emotions.
2. He is so spoiled that I couldn't forget him. I entered in a loop. I could not forget him and animated him continuously. I had to let go resistance to his incredible behaviour.
3. I had a baby sitter character. I baby sitted him. I let go my baby sitter character and let him go.
4. The fear of other people. They were probably accusing me for messing with the Devil (telepathically).

So, I don't know about Buddha, but in my case the process was highly difficult.

Thanks,

Pars
Green5
 
Posts: 16
Joined: Thu Aug 01, 2013 7:35 am
Location: Turkey

Next

Return to Exploring Buddhism

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], sozenithurts and 11 guests

>