Vinaya Texts

Discuss and learn about the traditional Mahayana scriptures, without assuming that any one school ‘owns’ the only correct interpretation.
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coldwater
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Vinaya Texts

Postby coldwater » Sun Jul 21, 2013 10:21 pm

Not quite a sutra...but no Vinaya or monastic category :)

I can find lots of papers and discussion on various Vinaya but the only text in translation seems to the the Theravadin one? Maybe I am just really terrible at using the internet?!? Also Thich Nhat Hanh's revised Vinaya text for recitation...but I am looking for root texts rather than scholastic analysis or contemporary revisions.

Using google translate on the Taisho Tripitaka results in a funny but totally useless translation. Any links, books or translations of any of the various Vinaya texts? The Dharmaguptaka and Mūlasarvāstivāda would be first choices.

Mahīśāsaka Vinaya
Mahāsāṃghika Vinaya
Dharmaguptaka Vinaya
Sarvāstivāda Vinaya
Mūlasarvāstivāda Vinaya

-byogen

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Indrajala
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Re: Vinaya Texts

Postby Indrajala » Mon Jul 22, 2013 1:03 am

At the moment the Dharmaguptaka Vinaya is being translated into English by the Numata Foundation. It is on their list here:

http://www.bdk.or.jp/english/activity/list.html

I'm uncertain when it will be published, however I have come to understand it has been translated which I assume means it is in the proofreading and editing stages. I know a lot of people are eager to gain access to the text. It is surprising it has taken this long to be translated.

This is also interesting (I know you're not looking for scholastic analysis, but take a look):

"The Mūlasarvāstivāda Vinaya Revival in Tokugawa Japan"

http://www.scribd.com/doc/145537380/Mis ... Clarke-pdf

I recently did something about the topic:

https://sites.google.com/site/dharmadep ... hismvinaya


The truth is there isn't much in English about the Vinaya. There's been some academic research, but it is limited. There's a lot of material and annotated versions in Chinese and Japanese with respect to the ancient Chinese versions.
tad etat sarvajñānaṃ karuṇāmūlaṃ bodhicittahetukam upāyaparyavasānam iti |

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Re: Vinaya Texts

Postby cdpatton » Mon Jul 22, 2013 3:49 pm


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Re: Vinaya Texts

Postby coldwater » Wed Jul 24, 2013 3:11 am

Hello,

Thank you for the suggestions. I am interested in seeing the differences and perspectives available in each VInaya. I have read you essay and have come to similar conclusions about Vinaya via history. I think this is evident due to how many variations exist and find it interesting now how some I've met invoke it as an absolute authority when it is barely in translation.

Currently I am reading Going Forth: Visions of Buddhist Monasticism and the BDK's translation of the Tendai Vinaya Teachings. Saicho and other's take on the 'Three Pure Precepts' as including Vinaya practice is interesting. Also how using the Three Pure Precepts was a way (potentially) to equalize power within the Buddhist community as allowed for a mixed community- renunciate, lay, men, women and seniority was based one's Bodhisattva ordination rather than the temporary self-liberation ordination. I think a similar type of movement happened in China but didn't last very long? I was told by another that even some Cha'n communities in the past 'broke away' and established their own ordination lineages using traditional texts/rituals because of the politics involved in their time.

Rulu's preface to the Bodhisattva Precepts indicates that the Brahma Net Sutra is still used for celibate Bodhisattva Vinaya practitioners compared to the Yogacharabhumi which does not contain a mandatory precept on celibacy? It also outlines 8 parajika for monastics and 6 for lay people while the Brahma Net is combined and is an extension of the 4 parajika from the Sravaka Vinaya?

Basically I am interested in looking at the purpose and function of Sravaka Vinaya and how it plays into what info I can find on the Bodhisattva Vinaya ordinations of Tendai and the first of the Three Perfect Precepts as being inclusive of all lower precepts. I was told there is a denomination within Tendai that still does 'Separate Ordinations' based on Sravaka Vinaya as a supplement to the Bodhisattva Vinaya.

Particularly interesting was Eison's self-ordination and revival of the Vinaya/Dharmaguptaka based ordinations by using a visionary experience and then subsequently the 'Comprehensive' Bodhisattva ordinations. Unorthodox but I think returns to the function of the Vinaya rather than using it as a political system or mechanism for regulating social status- which we can see from the various scandals that came from aristocratic/government involvement in religious life.

Perhaps someone else is more familiar and can clarify this information as I only have the two above books as reference. In a few months I will be able to ask one of the higher ups from Japan about it directly but information beforehand is helpful in forming questions to present.

Thank you again for the info, it will be great to see the discussion that comes out about Vinaya as the texts and traditions are translated rather than just the abbreviated lists of rules and as we move to more globalized forms of Buddhism.

Byogen

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Re: Vinaya Texts

Postby Indrajala » Wed Jul 24, 2013 1:49 pm

tad etat sarvajñānaṃ karuṇāmūlaṃ bodhicittahetukam upāyaparyavasānam iti |

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Re: Vinaya Texts

Postby cdpatton » Thu Jul 25, 2013 1:11 am


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Nicholas Weeks
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Re: Vinaya Texts

Postby Nicholas Weeks » Sat Jul 27, 2013 11:11 pm

Prebish's Buddhist Monastic Discipline is available at Scribd.
A bodhisattva does not become weary of evil beings nor does he commit the error of bringing forth thoughts inclined to reject them and cast them aside. Avatamsaka Sutra, ch. 25

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Re: Vinaya Texts

Postby Huifeng » Sun Jul 28, 2013 1:04 am



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Re: Vinaya Texts

Postby coldwater » Sun Jul 28, 2013 6:50 pm

Preaching to the choir. I don’t see the Boddhisattva Vinaya (based on the Brahmajala) very different in effect from the ‘sravaka’ Vinaya. It just lacks some of the more detailed bits...but if you are are mindful of your three doors and checking for the three poisons while considerate of shared space/public interaction then naturally a majority of what is in the detailed Vinayas falls into place I think. The Three Pure Precepts (as clusters) are broad and include these teachings as well.

Yes, Saicho seemed to be doing what you say…using it to bypass the Indian codes that were either not being followed/not relevant to the culture while still maintaining the overall intent and a structure. What his successors and the times did with it all is different of course.

In current times not many other traditions consider a Sramanera or Bhikshu ordination taken through a comprehensive Mahayana ordination as valid. Even if a person is using nearly the same practices. From what I've read during Saicho’s time and for his successors this was the case and ‘Separate’ ordinations following the Dharmaguptaka rituals were conducted. This was in order to create harmony with the other traditions that felt their ceremonies were the only validating ones (and some politics). I think this was also moving away from ‘attachment to rites and rituals’. From what it seems Saicho was living essentially according to Vinaya and had trained in it previously. It seemed he moved away from the rite of the majority to confer monastic status because the majority wasn’t even following their own precepts- rather it was power consolidated and used to control the religious communities. I don’t think that is a rampant issue today as it may have been then. Maybe in other countries where the monastics can influence the government more strongly. Also I think interpretations of the Vinaya have grown a bit and are dealing with a different set of social norms and issues than in Saicho’s time.

So while the Brahmajala seems to work well as a stand alone ordination/tonsure for monastics (and priests) this seems unique to Japan. Every other country has opt’ed for a separate and unique ordination to make the distinction rather than the same ordination with a different announcement by the preceptor and aspiration by the receiver. This could be for the benefit of the lay community as well as the ordained.

While I am more familiar with what is done and being done in my own tradition or traditions I've crossed over with in the past...it would be great to see traditional texts and commentaries and learn from contemporary practitioners across other traditions.

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Re: Vinaya Texts

Postby Indrajala » Mon Jul 29, 2013 3:19 am

tad etat sarvajñānaṃ karuṇāmūlaṃ bodhicittahetukam upāyaparyavasānam iti |

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Re: Vinaya Texts

Postby coldwater » Tue Jul 30, 2013 9:27 pm


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Re: Vinaya Texts

Postby Indrajala » Wed Jul 31, 2013 4:53 am

tad etat sarvajñānaṃ karuṇāmūlaṃ bodhicittahetukam upāyaparyavasānam iti |

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Re: Vinaya Texts

Postby cdpatton » Sat Aug 03, 2013 1:41 am


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Re: Vinaya Texts

Postby coldwater » Mon Aug 19, 2013 1:48 am



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