Ramon1920 wrote:"hey baby, want to be enlightened?"
1. karmamudra is for controlling a particular energy. When you develop the skill you're done.
2. jhanamudra, the visualized version, is not just for monastics, most people do it that way I think.
3. karmamudra is not sex in any other sense than 2 organs meet. If you were to do normal sex, you'd be breaking your vows if you have them.
4. karma/jhana mudra is an exercise that comes towards the end of several auxillary practices on top of your regular HYT sadhanas. Most people don't even know about the body of teachings karmamudra comes from.
5. people publish texts publicly because they assume karma and dharmapalas will sort out who obtains copies and because a lot of shameless people have published bogus commentaries on tantra that it's become necessary to counter the ridiculous misrepresentations spread by the ignorant.
6. Tantra is not, "let's have a few beers and mess around".
Being as old as I am, I face no criticism when I tell young people that my generation, by and large, were just playing pretend when it comes to Buddhism and they should ignore all our advice unless it comes with a reference to a sutra, tantra, or valid commentary.
If you all knew the nonsense that went on and how foolish we were! Just thinking about it makes me blush and cover my face with embarrassment.
Yup and perhaps. The "Yup" is because what Ramon is saying is completely true from his experience and knowledge.
Perhaps, from one very foolish old guys' point of view:
there is normal consensual sex which is fine if you have your 3 awarenesses and responsibilities as listed above,
there can be Tantric consensual sex which includes the 3 awarenesses and responsibilities as listed above,
and perhaps there are other possibilities.
In the holy tradition that is followed by Ramon, his #4 is very true: "karma/jhana mudra is an exercise that comes towards the end of several auxillary practices on top of your regular HYT sadhanas. Most people don't even know about the body of teachings karmamudra comes from."
In the holy Tantric traditions of Tibet, Nyingmapa, Geylugpa, Kargyudpa, Sakyapa, and Bon, perhaps it is like that, and incorporated with your regular HYT, Highest Yoga Tantra, sadhanas.
Perhaps there are other Tibetan Buddhist traditions.
Perhaps In the holy Dzogchen tradition, such things are viewed from the viewpoint of integration through "instant presence," with what arises in your continuum. In the holy Dzogchen tradition of ChNNR, the tablam practices are a "secondary" practice, and taught within the Terma practices of the Longsal Thugtig of Jnanadakini.
http://shangshung.org/store/index.php?m ... cts_id=559
http://shangshung.org/store/index.php?m ... cts_id=558
http://shangshung.org/store/index.php?m ... cts_id=331
This last includes,"The Wish-Fulfilling Jewel, Thigle of the Mind of the Guru Wisdom Dakini."
In the holy teachings of ChNNR, access to the "secondary practices" are restricted to anyone who is a "Member" of the Dzogchen Community and has had transmission for that practice, from the Master. An in-person, or over the web, co-temporaneous lung, is required before practice. That is all: no Nundro, Lama, Yidim, Khandro, completions are required.
To put this in context, (I am paraphrasing what I remember from ChNNR's teaching):
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Perhaps the main practice is Guruyoga. Perhaps if you are interested in one of the secondary practices and you have this real knowledge, when you do the secondary practices as Guruyoga, then even they become main practices. Perhaps in this way secondary practices can become very important.
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The key point, in Dzogchen, is to first have the primary practice of Guru Yoga, direct introduction transmission, from a Dzogchen Master, and the lung transmission for a specific practice, before you can practice any practice as a secondary practice, including the Longsal Thugtig of Jnanadakini.
So, while Ramon is exactly correct from within his holy tradition of Buddhist practice when he states in, "#1. karmamudra is for controlling a particular energy. When you develop the skill you're done."
Perhaps there are other holy Buddhist traditions.
Perhaps if you look at the course outline in:
http://dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=13510
you would find the auxiliary practices mentioned in Ramon's #4.
So, to go back to the OP's question, perhaps there are several "views" as to how Buddhists view consensual sex.
I truly believe that it is possible to find a suitable partner and practice "integration with sensation," with your eyes open as to the responsibilities, in a Buddhist context, as a Dzogchen Community secondary practice, as often as both you and your partner should choose to.
I truly believe that there are many couples who are practicing in this way, right now, without attachment and with great enjoyment. Perhaps great enjoyment is also empty of self nature, and with that understanding is just fine, whether in a Ganachakra, single couple, or alone, but keep your eyes open.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ganachakra
http://rywiki.tsadra.org/index.php/tsho ... %27khor_lo
Perhaps with the advent of the web, a responsible position is to explain things to newcomers, rather than to restrict access, because perhaps there are no secrets anymore except for what is self-secret and revealed only in experience gained through practice.
Perhaps it is also empty of self nature, and a completely correct path leading to full enlightenment, to become a monk or nun, keep strict vows, and find complete great enjoyment through the unsupported Samadhi of the Jnanas. Of course there are also many other Holy Buddhist paths leading to full enlightenment.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sam%C4%81d ... uddhism%29
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jnana
Perhaps this is why Lord Buddha taught the 84,000 (means a lot) different teachings so there would be something for everyone.
Hope this helps!
ob