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Sotapanna's Virtue - Page 2 - Dhamma Wheel

Sotapanna's Virtue

Buddhist ethical conduct including the Five Precepts (Pañcasikkhāpada), and Eightfold Ethical Conduct (Aṭṭhasīla).
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Cittasanto
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Re: Sotapanna's Virtue

Postby Cittasanto » Thu Mar 01, 2012 11:21 pm



He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

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reflection
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Re: Sotapanna's Virtue

Postby reflection » Fri Mar 02, 2012 12:24 am


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Re: Sotapanna's Virtue

Postby Zom » Fri Mar 02, 2012 8:57 am


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Re: Sotapanna's Virtue

Postby Cittasanto » Fri Mar 02, 2012 9:28 am

Last edited by Cittasanto on Fri Mar 02, 2012 4:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.


He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

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Zom
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Re: Sotapanna's Virtue

Postby Zom » Fri Mar 02, 2012 3:04 pm


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Re: Sotapanna's Virtue

Postby Cittasanto » Fri Mar 02, 2012 4:26 pm

Last edited by Cittasanto on Fri Mar 02, 2012 4:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.


He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

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David N. Snyder
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Re: Sotapanna's Virtue

Postby David N. Snyder » Fri Mar 02, 2012 4:46 pm

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Re: Sotapanna's Virtue

Postby daverupa » Fri Mar 02, 2012 4:55 pm


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Re: Sotapanna's Virtue

Postby Cittasanto » Fri Mar 02, 2012 5:11 pm

Hi David,
I am leaning towards not second guessing the Buddha.
We don't know what would of happened, so saying there was a lie, or saying it wouldn't of happened and was only a skilful means is only adding onto what is there, the fact is we don't know about that.
I agree it was a skilful means of persuading him to practice, but more than that is unsupported guesswork and addition, because we do not know the range of the Tathagatas power, but we do know Nanda was comparable in beauty to the Buddha and mistaken for the Buddha at least once, if memory serves, and being enlightened quite a catch for any dove footed nymph, if you ask me so would the Buddha of had to do anything? not really, but I don't actually know, it is just unsupported speculation & addition.
and the Buddha wouldn't lie (AN 9.7) so saying something which is non-factual would be covered there as it is a statement designed to mislead someone about something, whether in a positive direction or not.


He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

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Alex123
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Re: Sotapanna's Virtue

Postby Alex123 » Fri Mar 02, 2012 5:15 pm

Last edited by Alex123 on Fri Mar 02, 2012 5:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."

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Re: Sotapanna's Virtue

Postby santa100 » Fri Mar 02, 2012 5:16 pm

Actually I don't think the Buddha lied to Nanda. There're many different fruits attainable depended on the different stages of one's training provided that one does start the training. Through training, if one's gained good enough kamma that allows being reborn in one of the upper heavens within the Desire realm, then sure, there'd be 500 dove-footed nymphs waiting there for him. The Buddha, out of compassion for Nanda, presented the "lower" fruit since He knew Nanda still had lots of clinging. Had He presented the highest fruit of Total Un-Binding, Nanda would never listened. This was extremely skillful of the Buddha. It wasn't a lie though..


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