The death on the road

Discuss your personal experience with the Dharma here. How has it enriched your life? What challenges does it present?

The death on the road

Postby Snovid » Wed Jul 24, 2013 6:58 am

The day before yesterday when I fell asleep
I was thinking about the next day
about the fact that once again I will go for a bike ride

I closed my eyes and for a moment I saw a car driving straight at me
I was afraid that it might mean
I would be hit by a car

The next day I got up I drove
Along the way I met in the moments before my arrival
the accident happened

Car collided with a motorcycle


Very often this is that when I go out to the people
I get to the place of accident

Once, in a conversation with American shaman
I heard that in life we encounter what we are trying to avoid.

It was a time when I had some kind of obsession with death
I could not cope with the lack of knowledge
about what is happening with the knowledge
at the time of death of the body.

Whenever I was in town for a walk or to a concert
always someone died next to me, has always occurred to some fights

That's why I stopped going out to people and developed my social phobia.
Now that you have read a few books about the life and death
Sogyal Rinpoche, The Tibetan Book of the Dead, Lama Ole, etc.
death no longer a total mystery to me and I calmed down slightly.

I still do not like it that at the time of death, I will lose consciousness
and forget about who I was, what I learned
I forget about the fact that I was existed.

I'd rather not interrupt the stream of my consciousness
1-Phowa or rainbow body,guarantee the continuation of the stream of consciousness after death of body?

2-If still meet death on my way,I should learn some practices
which could quickly and quietly perform the scene of the accident?
I am from Poland I use google translator I do not know English
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Re: The death on the road

Postby Sherab Dorje » Wed Jul 24, 2013 7:28 am

Snowid wrote:I closed my eyes and for a moment I saw a car driving straight at me
I was afraid that it might mean
I would be hit by a car

The next day I got up I drove
Along the way I met in the moments before my arrival
the accident happened

Car collided with a motorcycle
In your dream you collided with the car, not somebody else riding a motorcycle.
I'd rather not interrupt the stream of my consciousness
1-Phowa or rainbow body,guarantee the continuation of the stream of consciousness after death of body?
The stream of consciousness is interrupted temporarily at the time of death, for some practitioners it is not interrupted at all but is experienced as clear light. But I seem to get the feeling that you mean that you fear losing this particular combination of skhanda. Why concern yourself with that? Since you were born you have experienced an infinite combination of skhanda, death is just another stage in this everchanging and impermanent group of processes which we call "me".

Do you have the same fear when falling asleep? You momentarily lose consciousness there, and then wake up as a different "self"? I recommend you find a good teacher to show you dream yoga, or at least to effectively explain to you the illusory nature of this existence.
2-If still meet death on my way,I should learn some practices
which could quickly and quietly perform the scene of the accident?
The simplest practice is the six syllable mantra or the mantra of Amitabha connected with a strong and heartfelt aspiration for the being to be reborn in the pure land of Potala or Dewachen. The Dewachen aspiration prayer is another option.



It will require a ritual reading from a teacher.

Phowa for others is also an option, but this will require you to find a teacher to: 1. give you the practice and explanaions, 2. give you ngondro (preliminary practice, normally 100,000 repitions of the Amitabha mantra) and 3. a retreat on the practice.
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
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Re: The death on the road

Postby Snovid » Wed Jul 24, 2013 7:49 am

I do not think my own personality is my true self.
My true self is the observer which never changes
When as a child I realized of self existence
I mean the same state that I feel now when I know that I exist.

I would like to have a sense of existence after death
do not care about preserving the personality and character.

When I fall asleep, I try to maintain awareness as long as possible
Sometimes I'm aware that I'm dreaming
I never managed to retain consciousness between wakefulness and sleep
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Re: The death on the road

Postby Sherab Dorje » Wed Jul 24, 2013 8:04 am

Snowid wrote:I do not think my own personality is my true self.
My true self is the observer which never changes
Really? And where exactly can I find this unchanging observer? Because it seems to me that the observer, the observed and the act of observing are actually constantly changing. If the observer never changed then they would not be capable of experiencing, they would be stuck with their very first experience forever.
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
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Re: The death on the road

Postby Snovid » Wed Jul 24, 2013 8:20 am

And where exactly can I find this unchanging observer?

In time and space.

it seems to me that the observer, the observed and the act of observing are actually constantly changing.

But it does not change your sense of existence.
When I am present
when I know that I'm
I mean the same as you
when you feel that you exist.

Circumstances are changing around us
but yesterday when I existed
I felt the same as now
and an hour ago, a minute ago.
I felt the same thing per an hour, tomorrow or year later.

We feel our existence the same way always
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Re: The death on the road

Postby Sherab Dorje » Wed Jul 24, 2013 8:30 am

Snowid wrote:In time and space.
Which are constantly changing.

But it does not change your sense of existence.
When I am present
when I know that I'm
I mean the same as you
when you feel that you exist.
And when you are not present ? So awareness changes, thus it cannot be unchanging, unless the observer is something other than awareness?
Circumstances are changing around us
but yesterday when I existed
I felt the same as now
and an hour ago, a minute ago.
I felt the same thing per an hour, tomorrow or year later.

We feel our existence the same way always
Really? Exactly the same? So when you were angry yesterday, you are angry now, and have always been angry? When you saw an image yesterday, you are observing that image now, and have observed it forever? Somehow, I don't think so.
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
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Re: The death on the road

Postby Snovid » Wed Jul 24, 2013 8:46 am

Which are constantly changing.

But I'm not time and space
I'm inside them.
I'm a stream of consciousness in time and space.

So when you were angry yesterday, you are angry now, and have always been angry?

Anger is a feeling that is not me.
I'm not feeling whose I experience
I am an observer of feelings.

unless the observer is something other than awareness?

I do not know,may the observer is awareness
or perhaps observer have consciousness.

When you saw an image yesterday, you are observing that image now, and have observed it forever?

Pictures which I observed is not me.
I mean observer awareness of  existence.
Self-reflection which animals apparently do not have.
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Re: The death on the road

Postby Sherab Dorje » Wed Jul 24, 2013 8:57 am

Snowid wrote:But I'm not time and space
I'm inside them.
I'm a stream of consciousness in time and space.
As long as there is an "I" you are trapped in dualism, impermanent, confined by (and defining) time and space. You cannot be inside and outside of something at the same time. Impossible.

Anger is a feeling that is not me.
I'm not feeling whose I experience
I am an observer of feelings.
Whose feelings are you observing/experiencing if not your own?

I do not know,may the observer is awareness
or perhaps observer have consciousness.
A consciouness other than the consciousness it already displays? Seperate to it?

Pictures which I observed is not me.
I mean observer awareness of  existence.
Awareness is constantly changing. Thus the observer is constantly changing.

Self-reflection which animals apparently do not have.
Apparently according to who?
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
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Re: The death on the road

Postby Snovid » Wed Jul 24, 2013 9:12 am

You cannot be inside and outside of something at the same time. Impossible.

'Nonbeing does not exist' Parmenides
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Re: The death on the road

Postby Sherab Dorje » Wed Jul 24, 2013 9:38 am

This is where you really need to find a teacher to explain to you the difference between relative and ultimate truth. Denying the existence of an eternal unchanging observer is not the same as positing non-being.

Anyway, if you believe in the existence of an eternal observer, then why do you fear death? :shrug:

I am not interested in your answer, take some time to think that question over and answer it for yourself. ;)
:namaste:
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
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Re: The death on the road

Postby Snovid » Wed Jul 24, 2013 10:23 am

if you believe in the existence of an eternal observer, then why do you fear death?

I do not believe
I wonder.
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Re: The death on the road

Postby Snovid » Wed Jul 24, 2013 12:58 pm

Denying the existence of an eternal unchanging observer is not the same as positing non-being.

I know that
However,knowledge about that
then after death I will be only cause of creation someone new
this is mediocre consolation for me.

If the observer does not exist
who dies, who experien Bardo,who is born?
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Re: The death on the road

Postby Sherab Dorje » Wed Jul 24, 2013 1:30 pm

Snowid wrote:
Denying the existence of an eternal unchanging observer is not the same as positing non-being.

I know that
However,knowledge about that
then after death I will be only cause of creation someone new
this is mediocre consolation for me.

If the observer does not exist
who dies, who experien Bardo,who is born?
Who lives this present life?
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
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Re: The death on the road

Postby Snovid » Wed Jul 24, 2013 1:32 pm

Who lives this present life?

I :tongue:
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Re: The death on the road

Postby Dronma » Wed Jul 24, 2013 11:45 pm

Snowid wrote:1-Phowa or rainbow body,guarantee the continuation of the stream of consciousness after death of body?

Complete realization guarantees total liberation from all hopes and fears. ;)

You have developed here a very interesting dialogue, guys.
I'd like to contribute with two quotes from Heraclitus:
1) Μεταβάλλον αναπαύεται. While changing, it is resting.
2) Δεν μπορείς να μπεις δυο φορές στο ίδιο ποτάμι. You cannot enter twice in the same river.

I think that Snowid has already developed a premature view of Dzogchen. :namaste:
"My view is as vast as the sky, but my actions are finer than flour"
~ Padmasambhava ~
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Re: The death on the road

Postby Snovid » Thu Jul 25, 2013 7:26 am

You cannot enter twice in the same river.

Hypothetical
River is always water
Water is always H2O

H2O never changes
If we change the H2O
it will not be water :tongue:

Complete realization guarantees total liberation from all hopes and fears.

You mean unemotionally indifference?
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Re: The death on the road

Postby Dronma » Fri Jul 26, 2013 4:53 pm

Snowid wrote:
You cannot enter twice in the same river.

Hypothetical
River is always water
Water is always H2O

H2O never changes
If we change the H2O
it will not be water :tongue:


Is it really "river" only the water (H2O)?
If it is so, then do we call "river" the water in a glass?
Do we call "river" the water of the ocean?
Do we call "river" the water of the rain?
Do we call "river" the water of the ice?
Do we call "river" the water of the dewdrop?


Snowid wrote:
Complete realization guarantees total liberation from all hopes and fears.

You mean unemotionally indifference?


Not at all indifference.
Since indifference is the result of ignorance.
And no one can be realized through ignorance. Isn't it?
"My view is as vast as the sky, but my actions are finer than flour"
~ Padmasambhava ~
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