Dharma Wheel

A Buddhist discussion forum on Mahayana and Vajrayana Buddhism
It is currently Mon Dec 22, 2014 4:07 pm

All times are UTC [ DST ]


Forum rules


Please click here to view the forum rules



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 27 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Thigle
PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 1:29 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jun 16, 2013 4:10 pm
Posts: 216
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_e51bfU2D1ps/R ... copia2.jpg

http://www.dzogchen.hu/wp-content/uploa ... GLE_wp.jpg

Why does the color white is in different places?

_________________
I am from Poland I use google translator I do not know English


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Thigle
PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 1:58 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 23, 2012 7:33 pm
Posts: 195
I wondered the same thing when I saw the two different tigles. I never asked anybody so I never received an answer. Maybe this topic fits better in the Dzogchen forum.

_________________
"Seek truth in meditation, not moldy books. Look in the sky to find the moon, not in the pond."
- Persian proverb


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Thigle
PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 6:44 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2011 10:30 pm
Posts: 1444
Snowid wrote:
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_e51bfU2D1ps/R118pQCVwEI/AAAAAAAAABM/B2UmiGHmBls/s1600-h/a_thigles_copia2.jpg

http://www.dzogchen.hu/wp-content/uploa ... GLE_wp.jpg

Why does the color white is in different places?


From a series of posts on the 'Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu' thread in the 'Dzogchen' forum:

Dronma wrote:
...the order of the colors of the 5 elements depends on the practice.

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, you are correct: there are two systems.

The Thun system: space, air, water, fire, earth. (e yam bam ram lam) [blue, green, white, red, yellow]

The Longsal system (which is the classical order of Indian cosmology): space, air, fire, water, earth (e yam ram bam lam). [blue, green, red, white, yellow]

Also these very same seed syllables in the latter system are also found in precisely the same order in Hindu element purification practice.

----------------------

heart wrote:

Thanks, but the tigle in dronmas post is space, air, fire, earth, water is that correct or not?

/magnus

Malcolm wrote:
Yes, as it should be IN THE THUN SYSTEM.

LONGSAL is different.

M

----------------------

Mr. G wrote:
If we're doing an Anuyoga practice, we would use the one in the thun?

Malcolm wrote:
It depends: if you are doing an Anuyoga practice like Jnanadakini you use the Longsal system. If you are doing something not connected with Longsal, you use Thun system. The system used in the Thun book comes from lower tantras.

----------------------

Finney wrote:
Malcolm,
Here [referencing Malcolm's response to heart's post] you seem to be agreeing that the proper Thun order is: space, air, fire, earth, water.

But earlier you wrote:
[Malcolm wrote:
The Thun system: space, air, water, fire, earth. (e yam bam ram lam)]



so, I'm a little confused. Can you help clarify it for me?

Malcolm wrote:
Oh I see... I was not paying careful attention. Also Thun [practice book] cover is out of order. There is no system where water is last. That is just for aesthetics. It has been like that for 30 years. Since Crystal [and the Way of Light]. My bad.

----------------------

Pero wrote:
There are two different things. One is the order of mantras in the purification of the 5 elements. This is different in Tun and Longsal. The other is the order of colors of the thigle when doing GY. As far as I know, these two aren't related. I'm pretty sure Rinpoche talked about it himself and I'd give you a reference but after 14 hours of work I don't really feel like going through a 1000 pages right now to find it (or it could have been during a webcast in which case I'll never find it haha).


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Thigle
PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 6:49 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2011 10:30 pm
Posts: 1444
Snowid wrote:
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_e51bfU2D1ps/R118pQCVwEI/AAAAAAAAABM/B2UmiGHmBls/s1600-h/a_thigles_copia2.jpg

http://www.dzogchen.hu/wp-content/uploa ... GLE_wp.jpg

Why does the color white is in different places?


So apparently that last image is not representative of any system, since there are no systems which have water [white] positioned last.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Thigle
PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 9:25 am 
Online

Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 6:40 pm
Posts: 452
Then again, somewhere there is agreement that the cover of the Thun book is correct for Guru Yoga! With white on the outside... I for one would love a definitive answer.

_________________
s.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Thigle
PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 10:04 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 3:47 am
Posts: 1434
Location: Globe
This thead seems to be Dzogchen specific.

Kevin

_________________
ओं मणिपद्मे हूं

http://www.dalailama.com/webcasts/post/336-je-tsongkhapas-great-stages-of-the-path
http://www.ripple.org
http://caretoclick.com/save-the-rainforests/donate-clicks-likes-and-tweets-to-fight-climate-change-and-deforestation


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Thigle
PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 12:36 pm 
Online

Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 6:40 pm
Posts: 452
Oh yeah... Never noticed, just opened it from 'view active topics'

_________________
s.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Thigle
PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 8:48 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2012 7:29 pm
Posts: 715
Location: Athens - GR
This discussion had taken place also in the past.
Please, look for references here:
http://dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=4052&hilit=thigle+A&start=1480#p106879

The correct order of the colors for the Ati Guru Yoga is exactly like in this picture (blue, green, red, yellow white):

Image

_________________
"My view is as vast as the sky, but my actions are finer than flour"
~ Padmasambhava ~


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Thigle
PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 10:17 pm 
Online

Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 6:40 pm
Posts: 452
Yeah, that's what I thought Dronma.....

.... But then on the page after you linked to Malcolm seems to suggest the Thun book image is for aesthetic purposes, I may be wrong.... To be honest, I don't think it's a deal breaker, so I'm not going to worry about it too much.

_________________
s.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Thigle
PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 10:24 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2012 7:29 pm
Posts: 715
Location: Athens - GR
Stewart wrote:
Yeah, that's what I thought Dronma.....

.... But then on the page after you linked to Malcolm seems to suggest the Thun book image is for aesthetic purposes, I may be wrong.... To be honest, I don't think it's a deal breaker, so I'm not going to worry about it too much.


That was what Malcolm said at that time.
I do not agree with his explanation.

_________________
"My view is as vast as the sky, but my actions are finer than flour"
~ Padmasambhava ~


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Thigle
PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 11:22 pm 
Online

Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 6:40 pm
Posts: 452
Thanks Dronma.... I've emailed ChNN as it seems to resurface now and then... Obviously he's busy right now, so I'll just bide my time until he replies, and post his answer.

To be clear I asked about the precise order for Ati Guru Yoga. I'm actually in the process of commissioning an 'A in Thigle' calligraphy/painting from an artist friend of mine, so I'll follow ChNN's definitive advice.

_________________
s.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Thigle
PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 11:53 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2011 10:30 pm
Posts: 1444
Stewart wrote:
Thanks Dronma.... I've emailed ChNN as it seems to resurface now and then... Obviously he's busy right now, so I'll just bide my time until he replies, and post his answer.

To be clear I asked about the precise order for Ati Guru Yoga. I'm actually in the process of commissioning an 'A in Thigle' calligraphy/painting from an artist friend of mine, so I'll follow ChNN's definitive advice.


Please share Rinpoche's response when you hear back. And post a photo of that art when it's finished, would love to see it!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Thigle
PostPosted: Sat Jul 20, 2013 12:00 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2012 7:29 pm
Posts: 715
Location: Athens - GR
Stewart wrote:
Thanks Dronma.... I've emailed ChNN as it seems to resurface now and then... Obviously he's busy right now, so I'll just bide my time until he replies, and post his answer.

To be clear I asked about the precise order for Ati Guru Yoga. I'm actually in the process of commissioning an 'A in Thigle' calligraphy/painting from an artist friend of mine, so I'll follow ChNN's definitive advice.



Well done, Stewart! :twothumbsup:
Please, let us know what Rinpoche will reply.

_________________
"My view is as vast as the sky, but my actions are finer than flour"
~ Padmasambhava ~


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Thigle
PostPosted: Sat Jul 20, 2013 12:49 am 
Online

Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 6:40 pm
Posts: 452
Yes, no problem... I will post Rinpoche’s response.


It may take some time for the painting to be ready... My friend is an established, in demand artist. However he's definitely agreed to do it, I've ran over the basic layout with him, White A in a five coloured Thigle.... 12x12 inch canvas... Not decided whether to frame it or mount on brocade yet... I'll decide when it's finished.

_________________
s.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Thigle
PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 11:53 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jun 16, 2013 4:10 pm
Posts: 216
Ok
And when I do guruyoga,I become 'A'
then visualize the 'A' as in the picture?
Or vice versa,like person who staring at me (as I,when I was looking at the picture)
and see what I see when I look at the picture?

It is a mirror reflection?
The right side of the 'A' on picture is my left side?

_________________
I am from Poland I use google translator I do not know English


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Thigle
PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 12:35 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 2:11 pm
Posts: 1999
Location: France
Snowid wrote:
Ok
And when I do guruyoga,I become 'A'
then visualize the 'A' as in the picture?
Or vice versa,like person who staring at me (as I,when I was looking at the picture)
and see what I see when I look at the picture?

It is a mirror reflection?
The right side of the 'A' on picture is my left side?


it's like you are behind (at the back of the) A, so juste reverse ...

Sönam

_________________
By understanding everything you perceive from the perspective of the view, you are freed from the constraints of philosophical beliefs.
By understanding that any and all mental activity is meditation, you are freed from arbitrary divisions between formal sessions and postmeditation activity.
- Longchen Rabjam -


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Thigle
PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 4:51 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2012 7:29 pm
Posts: 715
Location: Athens - GR
Snowid, you are the A.
There is no separation in between you and something outside or in front of you.
Rinpoche explains all these often as part of the transmission.
Moreover, the instructions of the transmission cannot be discussed in a public forum. Please keep this in mind when you post questions here. :namaste:

_________________
"My view is as vast as the sky, but my actions are finer than flour"
~ Padmasambhava ~


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Thigle
PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 5:03 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jun 16, 2013 4:10 pm
Posts: 216
Quote:
instructions of the transmission cannot be discussed in a public forum.

Even when the webcast is open?

_________________
I am from Poland I use google translator I do not know English


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Thigle
PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 5:16 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2012 7:29 pm
Posts: 715
Location: Athens - GR
Snowid wrote:
Even when the webcast is open?


Yes, even when the webcast is open.
We have to distinguish that Rinpoche is the ONE who transmits to us.
Even if we have received those transmissions, we are not yet capable to transmit those info to anyone. Much less in public.
Moreover, Rinpoche never participates in public forums for giving instructions and explanations.
SSI webcasts are HIS frequency, in which we have to synchronize in order to receive transmission and information.
And from what I have heard, he does not approve his teachings to be discussed publicly on internet.

_________________
"My view is as vast as the sky, but my actions are finer than flour"
~ Padmasambhava ~


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Thigle
PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2013 9:47 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2009 6:59 am
Posts: 3043
Not sure I understand but maybe far away there is a light shining by the grace of all posts. To say it with a handful of vocabulary: you must be the clear space itself in order to see all are so and guide my suffering mistaken...ness.

Then the ocean guides the 'ugly-beautiful fishes' minds' which are not different from own mind. We(I) people-appearance focus in misperception on a maha appearance-master, the leader and we the great ones and others waahaa.... We grasp the solid finger of our habitual perception of a master. In the light of devotion the appearance is not necessary there, this bright devotion is not other than boundless love for all in maha peace. This is what "a Master" is pointing to, in my simple understanding. So apologize.

At least I can say it nicely. And what all my talk has to do with the tread about the thigle?

Oops! :toilet:

_________________
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iG_lNuNUVd4


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 27 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: qwerty13, Stewart and 19 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group