From a series of posts on the 'Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu' thread in the 'Dzogchen' forum:Dronma wrote:
...the order of the colors of the 5 elements depends on the practice. Malcolm wrote:
Yes, you are correct: there are two systems.
The Thun system: space, air, water, fire, earth. (e yam bam ram lam) [blue, green, white, red, yellow]
The Longsal system (which is the classical order of Indian cosmology): space, air, fire, water, earth (e yam ram bam lam). [blue, green, red, white, yellow]
Also these very same seed syllables in the latter system are also found in precisely the same order in Hindu element purification practice.
Thanks, but the tigle in dronmas post is space, air, fire, earth, water is that correct or not?
Yes, as it should be IN THE THUN SYSTEM.
LONGSAL is different.
----------------------Mr. G wrote:
If we're doing an Anuyoga practice, we would use the one in the thun?Malcolm wrote:
It depends: if you are doing an Anuyoga practice like Jnanadakini you use the Longsal system. If you are doing something not connected with Longsal, you use Thun system. The system used in the Thun book comes from lower tantras.
Here [referencing Malcolm's response to heart's post]
you seem to be agreeing that the proper Thun order is: space, air, fire, earth, water.
But earlier you wrote: [Malcolm wrote:
The Thun system: space, air, water, fire, earth. (e yam bam ram lam)]
so, I'm a little confused. Can you help clarify it for me?Malcolm wrote:
Oh I see... I was not paying careful attention. Also Thun [practice book]
cover is out of order. There is no system where water is last. That is just for aesthetics. It has been like that for 30 years. Since Crystal [and the Way of Light]
. My bad.
There are two different things. One is the order of mantras in the purification of the 5 elements. This is different in Tun and Longsal. The other is the order of colors of the thigle when doing GY. As far as I know, these two aren't related. I'm pretty sure Rinpoche talked about it himself and I'd give you a reference but after 14 hours of work I don't really feel like going through a 1000 pages right now to find it (or it could have been during a webcast in which case I'll never find it haha).