Marihuana and meditation

Discuss your personal experience with the Dharma here. How has it enriched your life? What challenges does it present?

Re: Marihuana and meditation

Postby oushi » Wed Jul 17, 2013 6:35 pm

seeker242 wrote:People who think they can get something beneficial from smoking weed, are deluding themselves.

I deeply believe that Buddha had a power to see through delusions of others, but are you one? If now, how do you know that you are not deluding yourself?

All I can see here are few people, that were very irresponsible in approaching difficult topics, and now are trying to look wise.
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Re: Marihuana and meditation

Postby smcj » Wed Jul 17, 2013 6:41 pm

Nilasarasvati wrote:Just another "nobody" here...but yeah, I still occasionally smoke and all it does is strengthen my neurotic hamster-wheel a-spinnin'. It makes sensations more intense, it makes mental concepts more crystalline...but overall I think it just heightens all my obscurations, paranoias, delusions, depression, anxiety, grasping, etc. I generally don't experience it as an intoxicant so much as a psychotropic. It doesn't make me a better person though so it's really not for me.

Very perceptive. The way I put it is that it makes one's unawarenes louder. People misinterpret that as greater awareness, because it is something different and it seems like "more". Specifically the overly dramatic views it gives you are taking you in the wrong direction.
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Re: Marihuana and meditation

Postby seeker242 » Wed Jul 17, 2013 6:44 pm

oushi wrote:
seeker242 wrote:People who think they can get something beneficial from smoking weed, are deluding themselves.

I deeply believe that Buddha had a power to see through delusions of others, but are you one? If now, how do you know that you are not deluding yourself?


I deeply believe the precepts against intoxication, which includes weed, is a wise behavior to follow and a foolish one to break. I know I'm not deluding myself in that because it is in agreement with those who are wise. Do Buddhist teachers, zen masters, rinpoches, etc, etc. say using weed is skillful or unskillful? They say it's unskillful. I find it highly unlikely they are deluding themselves.
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Re: Marihuana and meditation

Postby Lhug-Pa » Wed Jul 17, 2013 6:52 pm

Haven't read the entire thread so maybe someone already mentioned this....

Now I don't necessarily recommend taking cannabis in any form just for the fact that its effects are so unpredictable psychologically and spiritually speaking (maybe Ayurveda or Tibetan Medicine have investigated this plant, I don't know); and, IF one insists on taking it, at least make sure that it is not (or at least much less) harmful to your physical health, meaning first of all do not smoke it (inhaling any kind of smoke directly is generally harmful), and do make sure that it is organically grown and clean (meaning free of synthetic-pesticides and not laced with any drugs).

To return to not smoking it; one could make the classic cookies or brownies, or make a tincture.

Smoking anything is generally just not a good idea, especially if you get it from your local dealer who most likely doesn't really know how it was grown and what synthetic-chemicals it might have been exposed to:

Edit:

Just found the following which is interesting. I don't necessarily agree with the entire article (nor am I sure how overall reliable the "Maharishi" group is in regard to Ayurveda) and I do mostly agree with the following Ayurveda section of the excerpt from it (it makes sense that cannabis is mainly beneficial in medicinal mixtures, and not as a highly concentrated stand alone i.e. there's no benefit in regularly getting ripped out of one's gourd):


Mapi.com wrote:The Ayurvedic Perspective

One of the founders of Ayurveda, Dhanavantari, developed a medical lexicon of the qualities and effects of herbs, including cannabis. According this description, Cannabis is sharp, heating and light in its quality. Being sharp and ‘heating’, it increases humoral bile and removes humoral phlegm. It also stimulates delusions, slows speech, and raises the heat of the digestive fire. Note, these ancient symptoms are all so common to the cannabis user of today: hallucinations, distortion of speech and cognition and the ‘munchies.’

In Ayurveda, cannabis used as a recreational drug is considered toxic to the mind and body. It has been used for thousands of years as a component in various preparations but not as an isolated herb. In Ayurveda, it is not considered an important herb. However, like any botanical, this herb can have some good effects depending on what you are using it to do. When properly prepared in a synergistic formula and used in minute quantities under the care and direction of an expert, it can aid digestion. The use of cannabis is always in a synergy with other herbs and spices and never by itself. (No such products are sold in the United States)

People ask, why would it be that an herb that has medical use in some cases can cause negative side-effects in other cases? According to the Ayurvedic texts, medicine properly used becomes nectar and improperly used become poison. When marijuana is used in ways not prescribed or intended (for example, in doses and for periods of time not prescribed), it can cause a host of imbalances and side-effects including stimulating delusions and slowing speech.

“Recreational use of marijuana creates ama,“ says Jadgish N Vaidya, director of Maharishi Ayurvedic programs at Lancaster Health Center, in Lancaster Massachusetts. “It impairs digestion and intellect, it upsets hormonal balances, and it can be addictive, in the traditional view of Ayurveda.” The classically trained Vaidya, or Ayurvedic expert adds, “It is not a path to enlightenment. Enlightenment is the moment-to-moment awareness of totality; the full inner and full outer value of awareness. Not the loss of awareness.”

Marijuana and the Mistake of the Intellect – The Ayurvedic Source of Disease

Pragya aparadh means the mistaken intellect, which becomes isolated from the rest of the universe. It is considered in Ayurveda to be the root cause of all disease and problems in life. Through the mistake of the intellect our physiology forgets its basis in the unmanifest, unified state of pure consciousness. There are three key elements to Pragya aparadh. All three features of this mistaken intellect are caused and aggravated by continued recreational use of cannabis.

1.) Buddhi Vibrhramsh is the disturbed intellect. In this condition one sees that which is harmful as useful.

2.) Dhriti Bhramsha is disturbed self-control where one cannot be restrained from that which is asatmya (unwholesome), or that which deranges the mind.

3.) Smriti Bhramsha, disturbed memory where the texts say that the Self (sattwa) is covered by rajas and tamas.

Ayurveda states that the ideal mind is Sattwa, or purity. Intake of cannabis aggravates Rajas as seen in the increase of appetite and in long term user’s aggression, and Tamas as seen in the dullness, tiredness, incoherent thinking and memory loss. Using cannabis from an Ayurvedic perspective, for something other than what it is intended, in ways not prescribed or intended, causes imbalance to manas, the mind. Note here that these features are consistent with the loss of prefrontal cortex executive control over thinking, feeling and behavior associated with cannabis use. Increasing dysfunction in this brain region is a prime nexus for extraordinary potent hold of addiction and why overcoming addiction is so difficult.

Cannabis use also interferes with Ojas, the master biochemical which promotes unity, immunity and balance on all levels of mind and body. The physiology reflects Ojas through its balanced self-referral functioning. When Ojas is imbalanced or obstructed, the result is susceptibility to disease, incoherent thought, speech and action, an inclination to laziness, somnolence, and increased sleep. Ojas is also associated with sukra or reproductive tissue. Recent research has shown the immunosuppressive effects of cannabinoids causing the susceptibility of cannabis users to certain cancers and infections. Modern research suggests that heavy marijuana use lowers men’s testosterone levels and sperm count and quality.

As indicated, used as a recreational drug, Cannabis is toxic. Smoking is a delivery therapy for some herbs for a variety of conditions in Ayurveda. It is not used in any Maharishi Ayurveda treatments in the US. Traditionally, this kind of delivery requires the strict preparation of ingredients in precise formulations for very specific conditions. If used at all, it is prescribed at specific times by trained experts under careful expert guidance. It is further stated in Ayurveda that if one smokes the wrong substance at the wrong time, it will create disease.

Cannabis smoke contains 400 compounds including 60 cannabinoids. However, because of its lower combustibility it contains 50% more carcinogenic polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons including naphthalene, benzanthracene, and benzopyrene, than tobacco smoke. A recent Canadian study found that marijuana smoke caused significantly more damage to cells and DNA than tobacco smoke. There is now convincing evidence that due to this toxicity of cannabis that regular usage damages DNA leaving the possibility of the initiation of cancer development.

Mental Imbalance

Research indicates that loss of mental stability is one significant side-effect from recreational marijuana use. In Ayurveda the Sanskrit term Unmaada means a profound impairment of judgement, perception and clarity.

The cause of Unmaada is multifold:

1.) The aggravation of the doshas
2.) Regimens not conducive to health
3.) Uses of substances or behaviors not conducive to health

These conditions can cause the mind and intellect to lose their state of balance. Unmaada is characterized by perversion of the mind, intellect, consciousness, memory, desire, manners, behavior and conduct.

These traits can be seen in Cannabis users as the different kinds of Unmaad.

Vata unmaada is characterized by longing for eatables not available. It is also characterized by out of context or inappropriate, incoherence in speech, smiling, laughing, dancing and singing.
Pitta unmaada shows excitement on inappropriate occasions, about hazardous or harmful activities; or becoming a motivational.
Kapha unmaada is seen as becoming slothful and sleepy, developing an aversion to cleanliness, staying in one place, inappropriate silence and sluggishness in speech and manner.
Alternatives to Creating Balance

It is understandable that people seek out natural substances like herbs to bring balance to their lives, to relax and to relieve pain and stress. However, from the perspective of modern science and from Maharishi Ayurveda®, the use of marijuana can create serious imbalances in the mind and body, especially when used recreation-ally. The pleasurable effect of a recreational substance is transient at best, with substantial negative side effects with continued use. And, though there are those who hope that marijuana might contribute to their health and enlightenment, it is the opinion of Ayurvedic experts that it does the opposite, contributing to loss of mental balance and integration. Research documents that the evolution of brain function associated with the experience of enlightenment depends upon increased neural coherence or integration. The use of marijuana, regardless of its ability to induce some subjective temporary relief, is incompatible with the path of enlightenment. Introducing disorder has never been an effective source of creating orderliness and balance in brain function.
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Re: Marihuana and meditation

Postby oushi » Wed Jul 17, 2013 6:59 pm

seeker242 wrote:
oushi wrote:
seeker242 wrote:People who think they can get something beneficial from smoking weed, are deluding themselves.

I deeply believe that Buddha had a power to see through delusions of others, but are you one? If now, how do you know that you are not deluding yourself?


I deeply believe the precepts against intoxication, which includes weed, is a wise behavior to follow and a foolish one to break. I know I'm not deluding myself in that because it is in agreement with those who are wise. Do Buddhist teachers, zen masters, rinpoches, etc, etc. say using weed is skillful or unskillful? They say it's unskillful. I find it highly unlikely they are deluding themselves.

Show me one place where Buddha refers to weed. It was, and is, very popular herb in India, but I have not seen one sentence of Buddha speaking about it. It is only because you classify it in the same group as alcohol. Why not include coffee or tea in the same group? It should be mentioned that humans have very similar cannabinoid produces by their body. It's called Anandominde (from Ananda). It is present in you body and influences your mind whether you wish it, or not. Just take a long run, and you are stoned. So, now it appears that you are always intoxicated breaking the precept that you took.

Lung-pa wrote:To return to not smoking it; one could make the classic cookies or brownies, or make a tincture.

This I do not recommend, although I myself don't smoke cannabis. You lever will break it into a different substance which is far more potent then THC, and lasts longer. In Nepal shamans use it to get close to the "Awareness of Shiva", but it is not for everyone.
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Re: Marihuana and meditation

Postby Sherab Dorje » Wed Jul 17, 2013 7:04 pm

oushi wrote:For you it certainly is...
I don't recommend weed to anyone that says that he "used to (grow and) smoke, drink lots (hell, my family owned an ouzo distillery), pop any pill that crossed my path, trip, snort, you name it.". Stay away from anything that alters your consciousness!

Sorry, but you do not look like a trustworthy person in this area.
That is where you are 100% wrong. You see, if i did not have a tonne of personal experience with intoxicants, then that would make mean my "preaching" comes from a position of ignorance on the topic and my opinion would be worthless. Unfortunately for you though, I know when I can see deluded justifications, I know because I have been there and done that.

You see, apart from my personal experience with intoxicants, I also have post graduate qualifications in drug and alcohol dependency (I am a registered psychologist). I have used my personal experience to help people overcome their dependencies. When they have wanted to overcome their dependencies. You can lead a horse to water...

So your attempt to nullify the veracity of my opinion has come to naught.

I actually never got to the point where I needed to be hospitalised/institutionalised for my drug and alcohol use, I was actually always a recreational user. Addiction was never a problem with me. Only with cigarettes, nasty little blighters, they were the hardest to deal with. I got to the point where I was smoking two packets a day and yet managed to get to the point where I could smoke two cigarettes a day. No more than two. Once you get to that point, with any intoxicant, you realise that you may as well stop completely. That was because I always saw the danger of excessive indulgence, since many of my friends were institutionalsised, and because I have always had a decent awareness of my body.

Even with marijuana, I managed to have a stash and yet only smoke when I wanted to. Not out of habit, not out of boredom, not because I believed it increased my meditative capacities, just because I felt like it. So feel free to give me your stash to look after, you can be 100% sure I wouldn't waste any of my time smoking it. It will be 100% safe with me.

Now back to your deluded justifications...
All I can see here are few people, that were very irresponsible in approaching difficult topics, and now are trying to look wise.
All I can see is a person that thinks they are acting responsibly trying to pass off their delusion as wisdom (and trying to con others in the process as well). You want to delude yourself? Fine. But trying to pull others into your delusion is not cool. Not in the slightest.
Show me one place where Buddha refers to weed.
He doesn't refer to weed specifically, he refers to intoxicants in general. Marijuana is an intoxicant.
"Furthermore, abandoning the use of intoxicants, the disciple of the noble ones abstains from taking intoxicants. In doing so, he gives freedom from danger, freedom from animosity, freedom from oppression to limitless numbers of beings. In giving freedom from danger, freedom from animosity, freedom from oppression to limitless numbers of beings, he gains a share in limitless freedom from danger, freedom from animosity, and freedom from oppression. This is the fifth gift, the fifth great gift — original, long-standing, traditional, ancient, unadulterated, unadulterated from the beginning — that is not open to suspicion, will never be open to suspicion, and is unfaulted by knowledgeable contemplatives & brahmans. And this is the eighth reward of merit, reward of skillfulness, nourishment of happiness, celestial, resulting in happiness, leading to heaven, leading to what is desirable, pleasurable, & appealing; to welfare & to happiness.
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html

See also the Sikkha Utta, Sigalovada Sutta, Uposatha Sutta, etc...
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
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Re: Marihuana and meditation

Postby oushi » Wed Jul 17, 2013 7:16 pm

gregkavarnos wrote:That is where you are 100% wrong. You see, if i did not have a tonne of personal experience with intoxicants, then that would make mean my "preaching" comes from a position of ignorance on the topic and my opinion would be worthless. Unfortunately for you though, I know when I can see deluded justifications, I know because I have been there and done that.

It's like demonizing cars because every time you drive, it end bad. Take a bicycle next time. You have been there, done that and failed bad. You admit that and still you persist in saying you know how to "drive". :thinking:
So your attempt to nullify the veracity of my opinion has come to naught.

Are you trying to cast a spell here?

You see, apart from my personal experience with intoxicants, I also have post graduate qualifications in drug and alcohol dependency (I am a registered psychologist). I have used my personal experience to help people overcome their dependencies. When they have wanted to overcome their dependencies. You can lead a horse to water...

Healthy people do not go to see the doctor. It's like oncologist saying all people have cancer.

I got to the point where I was smoking two packets a day and yet managed to get to the point where I could smoke two cigarettes a day. No more than two. Once you get to that point, with any intoxicant, you realise that you may as well stop completely.

Cool. But you know what, I never started smoking, so I didn't have to give anything up. Smoking fags is pure stupidity. Does it make me more or less credible? Good or bad karma?

Even with marijuana, I managed to have a stash and yet only smoke when I wanted to. Not out of habit, not out of boredom, not because I believed it increased my meditative capacities, just because I felt like it. So feel free to give me your stash to look after, you can be 100% sure I wouldn't waste any of my time smoking it. It will be 100% safe with me.

Great, so you are not an addict. I cannot give you my stash because I have none. Smoking is a waste of stuff and health.
All I can see is a person that thinks they are acting responsibly trying to pass off their delusion as wisdom (and trying to con others in the process as well). You want to delude yourself? Fine. But trying to pull others into your delusion is not cool. Not in the slightest.

Another one that sees through delusions of others... Buddhas are flowering today.

He doesn't refer to weed specifically, he refers to intoxicants in general. Marijuana is an intoxicant.

I explained it before, but you probably missed it in purpose.
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Re: Marihuana and meditation

Postby flavio81 » Wed Jul 17, 2013 7:20 pm

smcj wrote:
Nilasarasvati wrote:Just another "nobody" here...but yeah, I still occasionally smoke and all it does is strengthen my neurotic hamster-wheel a-spinnin'. It makes sensations more intense, it makes mental concepts more crystalline...but overall I think it just heightens all my obscurations, paranoias, delusions, depression, anxiety, grasping, etc. I generally don't experience it as an intoxicant so much as a psychotropic. It doesn't make me a better person though so it's really not for me.

Very perceptive. The way I put it is that it makes one's unawarenes louder. People misinterpret that as greater awareness, because it is something different and it seems like "more". Specifically the overly dramatic views it gives you are taking you in the wrong direction.


:good:

Very insightful. Sometimes my experience has been the same in some occasions where i've been really high: some fears of mine went wildly amplified, or anxiety amplified. How is this useful in a buddhist practice? Not so much, to be honest, or at least in my case. Why? To put it in a blunt way: Because i already know my own shit stinks, no need to smell it once more.

Most of the experiences with weed, however, have been pleasing. But, as noted above, no more beneficial than locking yourself to play Super Mario Bros 3 for two hours. In other words, just indulgence, frivolous recreation. We're not reaching a higher spiritual plane with weed, because all of our confusions are still there and will not diminish by smoking more. In one of Trungpa's books, Cutting Through Spiritual Materialism, he explains the development of ego; he explains the skhandas using the example of a monkey that locks himself between walls created by his own mind. At the end one of Trungpa's students asks what would happen if such monkey would take a little of LSD; and Trungpa makes it clear that the monkey "has already taken it" since the beginning -- in other words, the monkey has always been as deluded as if on a psychedelic trip, we're always in a trip of distorted perception of reality that produces aversion/attachment/pride/etc; and thus the LSD will not stop the fundamental confusion of the monkey's mind in any way.
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Re: Marihuana and meditation

Postby Sherab Dorje » Wed Jul 17, 2013 7:22 pm

oushi wrote:It's like demonizing cars because every time you drive, it end bad. Take a bicycle next time. You have been there, done that and failed bad. You admit that and still you persist in saying you know how to "drive". :thinking: ... I explained it before, but you probably missed it in purpose.
Like I said: you can lead a horse to water... Good luck on your path.
:namaste:
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Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
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Re: Marihuana and meditation

Postby oushi » Wed Jul 17, 2013 7:28 pm

gregkavarnos wrote:
oushi wrote:It's like demonizing cars because every time you drive, it end bad. Take a bicycle next time. You have been there, done that and failed bad. You admit that and still you persist in saying you know how to "drive". :thinking: ... I explained it before, but you probably missed it in purpose.
Like I said: you can lead a horse to water... Good luck on your path.
:namaste:

Thank you.
I never intended to make anyone drink what he does not want to, but being honest always has it's place.
Hope you will find peace on your path soon.

flavio81 wrote: At the end one of Trungpa's students asks what would happen if such monkey would take a little of LSD; and Trungpa makes it clear that the monkey "has already taken it" since the beginning -- in other words, the monkey has always been as deluded as if on a psychedelic trip, we're always in a trip of distorted perception of reality that produces aversion/attachment/pride/etc; and thus the LSD will not stop the fundamental confusion of the monkey's mind in any way.

Something worth watching:

I wish all people could be deluded in this way.
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Re: Marihuana and meditation

Postby Sherab Dorje » Wed Jul 17, 2013 7:31 pm

oushi wrote:Thank you.
I never intended to make anyone drink what he does not want to, but being honest always has it's place.
Hope you will find peace on your path soon.
Thank you.
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
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Re: Marihuana and meditation

Postby seeker242 » Wed Jul 17, 2013 8:17 pm

oushi wrote:Show me one place where Buddha refers to weed. It was, and is, very popular herb in India, but I have not seen one sentence of Buddha speaking about it. It is only because you classify it in the same group as alcohol. Why not include coffee or tea in the same group?


What makes you think it's me classifying it and not the 1,000+ Buddhist teachers, monks, zen masters, rinpoches, etc, etc? What do they have to say about it?

Just take a long run, and you are stoned. So, now it appears that you are always intoxicated breaking the precept that you took.


Now I'm sorry but that is just being ridiculous.
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Re: Marihuana and meditation

Postby Namu Butsu » Thu Jul 18, 2013 12:03 am

its funny it seems that many are acting like they never 'take a break from meditating' and watch a tv program or watch a movie or play a sport. Its as if the majority posting here are constantly meditating, chanting, or doing some 'spiritual' practice. Oh my someone smokes cannabis and its as if they are smoking crack here on this forum. I guess us 'stoners' are devils in disguise. :twisted:
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Re: Marihuana and meditation

Postby Lhug-Pa » Thu Jul 18, 2013 12:10 am

Well in my first sentence of this post, I didn't exactly mean "in any form"; considering it seems that organically-grown cannabis can be beneficial as one of many ingredients in some Ayurvedic Medicinal recipes (which one ingests rather than smoking).
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Re: Marihuana and meditation

Postby Bhusuku » Thu Jul 18, 2013 12:13 am

gregkavarnos wrote:He doesn't refer to weed specifically, he refers to intoxicants in general. Marijuana is an intoxicant.
"Furthermore, abandoning the use of intoxicants, the disciple of the noble ones abstains from taking intoxicants. In doing so, he gives freedom from danger, freedom from animosity, freedom from oppression to limitless numbers of beings. In giving freedom from danger, freedom from animosity, freedom from oppression to limitless numbers of beings, he gains a share in limitless freedom from danger, freedom from animosity, and freedom from oppression. This is the fifth gift, the fifth great gift — original, long-standing, traditional, ancient, unadulterated, unadulterated from the beginning — that is not open to suspicion, will never be open to suspicion, and is unfaulted by knowledgeable contemplatives & brahmans. And this is the eighth reward of merit, reward of skillfulness, nourishment of happiness, celestial, resulting in happiness, leading to heaven, leading to what is desirable, pleasurable, & appealing; to welfare & to happiness.


AFAIK, the words that sometimes are translated as intoxicants (like āsava) are apparently rather hard to translate, but from what I was able to figure out, they generally refer to liquor in general, or to a specific kind of liquor. Asava, for example, is also interpreted/translated in different ways. This glossary says:

"According to Buddhaghosa, wel matured spiritous liquors are called asava. The underlying idea is therefore, that of `overwhelming intoxification', not that of a deadly flood. There are four asava: (1) kama `lust, desire', (2) bhava `(desire of a future) existence', (3) avijja `ignorance (of the four holy truths)', and (4) ditthi `false belief'. Kinasava is `one whoe has overcome the asavas', and anasava is `one who is free from the asavas', are epithets of the arahant."


Bhikkhu Bodhi writes in his "In the Buddha's Words":

"The āsavas or taints are a classification of defilements considered in their role of sustaining the forward movement of the process of birth and death. The commentaries derive the word from a root su meaning "to flow." Scholars differ as to whether the flow implied by the prefix ā is inward or outward; hence some have rendered it as "influxes" or "influences," others as "outflows" or "effluents." A stock passage in the suttas indicates the term's real significance independently of etymology when it describes the āsavas as states "that defile, bring renewal of existence, give trouble, ripen in suffering, and lead to future birth, aging and death" (MN 36.47; I 250). Thus other translators, bypassing the literal meaning, have rendered it "cankers," "corruptions," or "taints." The three taints mentioned in the Nikāyas are respectively synonyms for craving for sensual pleasures, craving for existence, and ignorance. [The fourth āsava, attachment to views, appears in the commentaries.] When the disciple's mind is liberated from the taints by the completion of the path of arhantship, he reviews his newly won freedom and roars his lion's roar: "Birth is destroyed, the spiritual life has been lived, what had to be done has been done; there is no more coming back to any state of being."

And according to Shravasti Dhammika, āsava is a certain kind of alcoholic beverage that "...was made from the juice of the palmyra palm or the wild date palm and could be either just brewed or distilled (Vin.II,294)."

...so, if these translations/interpretations of the word āsava are correct, I really don't get how some translators came up with the idea to translate it just as "intoxicants", especially if we look at the context why the Buddha made this rule against drinking alcohol. [see here]

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Re: Marihuana and meditation

Postby Bhusuku » Thu Jul 18, 2013 3:04 am

BTW, I forgot to mention, there are also other formulations like "Surāmerayamajjapamādaṭṭhānā" that can be found in the Pañcasikkhāpada Sutta, the Jivaka Sutta, or the Uposatha Sutta, but it seems that's too rather difficult to translate. For example, Ñanavara Thera and Bhikkhu Kantasilo translate the relevant part in the Uposatha Sutta as "...have given up the taking of liquors and intoxicants, of that which intoxicates, causing carelessness.", while Thanissaro Bhikkhu translates this part in the Jivaka Sutta as "[one abstains from] ...fermented & distilled drinks that lead to heedlessness." Anyway, to me it seems the more you read and talk to people who know Pali well, the more obscure the whole 5th precept gets [see here for example]. Which makes me wonder: is it really so damn difficult in a language like Pali to say a simple sentence like "don't drink alcohol" or "don't take (intoxicating) drugs"? :shrug:
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Re: Marihuana and meditation

Postby yegyal » Thu Jul 18, 2013 5:42 am

In my experience it definitely is a waste of time that would be better spent practicing. In the beginning I was on it every now and then, but after a while I was on it first thing in the morning while I had my morning coffee and last thing before I went to bed. And sure you can learn a thing or two, have a moment of insight here and there, but mostly it's all talking the talk and rarely, if ever, walking the walk. And sure you can make some friends and have some interesting conversations with some interesting people, but although they mean well they probably lack the capacity to benefit you in any longterm meaningful way. All in all, it might seem like you're spending your time contemplating the Dharma, but you're not. You're much more likely to end up getting agitated and creating even more obstacles to your practice, so your probably better off staying away.

So that about covers my experience with Dharma Wheel. As for marijuana, I used to smoke a lot when I was young and gradually as I got more involved with Dharma practice I smoked less and less until I eventually stopped completely. I think most smokers who became practitioners went through a similar process, so I see no reason to tell people they can't smoke ganja because if you're serious about practice you'll eventually come to the conclusion that you just don't have much time to waste on frivolous entertainment.
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Re: Marihuana and meditation

Postby Lhug-Pa » Thu Jul 18, 2013 5:07 pm

:rolling:
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Re: Marihuana and meditation

Postby Nilasarasvati » Thu Jul 18, 2013 6:55 pm

Namu Butsu wrote:its funny it seems that many are acting like they never 'take a break from meditating' and watch a tv program or watch a movie or play a sport. Its as if the majority posting here are constantly meditating, chanting, or doing some 'spiritual' practice. Oh my someone smokes cannabis and its as if they are smoking crack here on this forum. I guess us 'stoners' are devils in disguise. :twisted:


Nobody compared it to crack, sir.
More importantly most of us have smoked it...have talked about our experiences...and a good majority seem to agree that it's not beneficial to/detracts from the practice of awakening. Our numbers don't make us right...but its foolish to ignore the general consensus of a diverse and experienced group of people. Or dismiss it because you think we're harshing on your stoner lifestyle.
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Location: Trāyastriṃśa. Just kidding. What a cool sanksrit word, huh?

Re: Marihuana and meditation

Postby hansen » Thu Jul 18, 2013 7:44 pm

TaTa: I'd mindfully research and consider the health implications of inhaling any kind of smoke. You might consider ingestion as an alternative. Naturally there is going to be a mental conflict between a substance which compels the mind to aggressively engage in certain psychic, emotional, and mental activities and a meditation process in which you are withdrawing from them. Please consider this carefully.
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