Buddhahood not being the end of the path

No holds barred discussion on the Buddhadharma. Argue about rebirth, karma, commentarial interpretations etc. Be nice to each other.

Buddhahood not being the end of the path

Postby Sherlock » Sat Jul 13, 2013 6:37 pm

Correct me if I'm wrong, but In general Mahayana, the general idea seems to be that achieving Buddhahood will prevent one from further benefiting sentient beings (at least at the end of one's life as a Buddha) and that for this reason, bodhisattvas strive to remain as bodhisattvas for kalpas to benefit sentient beings. Where did the idea of Buddhahood not being the end of the path first emerge? I have received Dzogchen teachings that, IMO, fully explain how and why upon realization, one never stops benefiting sentient beings, but does general Vajrayana go into it as well?
vajracakra.com
Sherlock
 
Posts: 717
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 3:14 pm

Re: Buddhahood not being the end of the path

Postby Malcolm » Sat Jul 13, 2013 7:12 pm

Sherlock wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong, but In general Mahayana, the general idea seems to be that achieving Buddhahood will prevent one from further benefiting sentient beings



No. This idea is incorrect. The goal of Mahāyāna Buddhism is non-abiding nirvana in which a buddha always acts on behalf of sentient beings, as opposed to the hīnayāna concept of buddhahood in which a buddha ceases his activity at parnirvana.

M
http://www.bhaisajya.net
http://atikosha.org
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

" The one who teaches the benefits of peace,
he is said to be a ṛṣī; the others are the opposite of him."

-- Uttaratantra
Malcolm
 
Posts: 10217
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: Buddhahood not being the end of the path

Postby Sherlock » Sat Jul 13, 2013 7:30 pm

Then why are there general Mahayana aspirations about vowing not to achieve Buddhahood until all sentient beings are liberated etc?

Wouldn't it be far better, even from the Mahayana perspective, to achieve Buddhahood as soon as possible to really benefit sentient beings?
vajracakra.com
Sherlock
 
Posts: 717
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 3:14 pm

Re: Buddhahood not being the end of the path

Postby Malcolm » Sat Jul 13, 2013 8:37 pm

Sherlock wrote:Then why are there general Mahayana aspirations about vowing not to achieve Buddhahood until all sentient beings are liberated etc?



There are three aspirations for buddhahood: king, captain and shepard. The aspiration you mention above is the shepard type -- it not the one commonly taught, for example, in Tibetan Buddhism.

In Tibetan Buddhism the king-like aspiration is taught, i.e. may I achieve complete buddhahood for the benefit of all sentient beings.
http://www.bhaisajya.net
http://atikosha.org
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

" The one who teaches the benefits of peace,
he is said to be a ṛṣī; the others are the opposite of him."

-- Uttaratantra
Malcolm
 
Posts: 10217
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: Buddhahood not being the end of the path

Postby trevor » Sun Jul 14, 2013 12:20 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Sherlock wrote:Then why are there general Mahayana aspirations about vowing not to achieve Buddhahood until all sentient beings are liberated etc?



There are three aspirations for buddhahood: king, captain and shepard. The aspiration you mention above is the shepard type -- it not the one commonly taught, for example, in Tibetan Buddhism.

In Tibetan Buddhism the king-like aspiration is taught, i.e. may I achieve complete buddhahood for the benefit of all sentient beings.


I can feel that I am the last sentient being in samsara and everyone else is a Buddha trying to make me realize.
trevor
 
Posts: 50
Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2010 5:34 pm

Re: Buddhahood not being the end of the path

Postby Malcolm » Sun Jul 14, 2013 4:09 pm

trevor wrote:
Malcolm wrote:
Sherlock wrote:Then why are there general Mahayana aspirations about vowing not to achieve Buddhahood until all sentient beings are liberated etc?



There are three aspirations for buddhahood: king, captain and shepard. The aspiration you mention above is the shepard type -- it not the one commonly taught, for example, in Tibetan Buddhism.

In Tibetan Buddhism the king-like aspiration is taught, i.e. may I achieve complete buddhahood for the benefit of all sentient beings.


I can feel that I am the last sentient being in samsara and everyone else is a Buddha trying to make me realize.



Sure, one can feel many things.
http://www.bhaisajya.net
http://atikosha.org
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

" The one who teaches the benefits of peace,
he is said to be a ṛṣī; the others are the opposite of him."

-- Uttaratantra
Malcolm
 
Posts: 10217
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: Buddhahood not being the end of the path

Postby Ramon1920 » Wed Jul 17, 2013 2:41 am

This idea of not becoming a Buddha until all beings have emerged from samsara is in some sutras I've noticed.

It's really very weird. I usually hope when I see things like this that it is just some gross mistranslation.

I'm sure you could rationalize it with something like, "beings that don't have the karma to come in contact with a Buddha can come in contact with a Bodhisattva of yada yada level".

My first inclination is to say the people declaring such a thing in the sutras are stupid, but in the context of the sutra they are very esteemed and wise Bodhisattvas. So in order to say they are stupid I would have to say the writers of the sutras are stupid. Unfortunately there are rules about saying such a thing, so I will reserve my judgement until at least a time that I have studied the sutras to a degree I am comfortable with.
Ramon1920
 
Posts: 231
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2013 9:57 am

Re: Buddhahood not being the end of the path

Postby flavio81 » Wed Jul 17, 2013 4:27 am

Ramon1920 wrote:This idea of not becoming a Buddha until all beings have emerged from samsara is in some sutras I've noticed.


It is part of Mahayana Buddhism 101. There are many books that explain the reason of existence for this motivation, in depth.

Ramon1920 wrote: It's really very weird. I usually hope when I see things like this that it is just some gross mistranslation.

I'm sure you could rationalize it with something like, "beings that don't have the karma to come in contact with a Buddha can come in contact with a Bodhisattva of yada yada level".

My first inclination is to say the people declaring such a thing in the sutras are stupid, but in the context of the sutra they are very esteemed and wise Bodhisattvas. So in order to say they are stupid I would have to say the writers of the sutras are stupid.


Oh my, oh my...

Let me make you a suggestion: Read more books on buddhism at the mahayana level, and eventually you will have an understanding for this specific motivation. You can do it, and this will benefit you more than jumping to conclusions.
User avatar
flavio81
 
Posts: 164
Joined: Thu Jun 27, 2013 5:25 am
Location: Lima, Peru

Re: Buddhahood not being the end of the path

Postby smcj » Wed Jul 17, 2013 5:55 am

Ramon1920 wrote:This idea of not becoming a Buddha until all beings have emerged from samsara is in some sutras I've noticed.

It's really very weird. I usually hope when I see things like this that it is just some gross mistranslation.

I'm sure you could rationalize it with something like, "beings that don't have the karma to come in contact with a Buddha can come in contact with a Bodhisattva of yada yada level".

Close. I think the idea is that a Buddha like Sakyamuni has become nothing but Dharmakaya, which cannot be seen or heard. People need to be able to see and hear Dharma, otherwise they have no knowledge about it. So the pledge to not attain buddhahood is saying that they will continue to be accessible to sentient beings.

The goal of Mahāyāna Buddhism is non-abiding nirvana in which a buddha always acts on behalf of sentient beings, as opposed to the hīnayāna concept of buddhahood in which a buddha ceases his activity at parnirvana.

Maybe so, but ya still can't see him!
smcj
 
Posts: 1477
Joined: Wed May 29, 2013 6:13 am

Re: Buddhahood not being the end of the path

Postby muni » Sun Jul 21, 2013 9:07 am

trevor wrote:
I can feel that I am the last sentient being in samsara and everyone else is a Buddha trying to make me realize.


:namaste:

Oh.

Humble is the flame recognizing the fire.
Humble is the breath recognizing the air.
muni
 
Posts: 2736
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2009 6:59 am

Re: Buddhahood not being the end of the path

Postby lobster » Sun Jul 21, 2013 11:00 am

muni wrote:Humble is the flame recognizing the fire.
Humble is the breath recognizing the air.


:woohoo: :good:

Buddha bonfire. Do we get burned? Marshmallows?
popcorn?
:popcorn:

Gotta find the recipe for cookin' dharma . . . :stirthepot:
:reading:

Next people will be saying not even the end is a beginning . . . :broke:
User avatar
lobster
 
Posts: 910
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2012 9:06 pm


Return to Open Dharma

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Dan74, JKhedrup, mikenz66, Norwegian and 29 guests

>