Stream-entry help!

Discussion of meditation in the Mahayana and Vajrayana traditions.

Stream-entry help!

Postby lite » Sat Jul 06, 2013 9:02 pm

Please, I need step by step instructions on how to enter the stream.
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Re: Stream-entry help!

Postby alpha » Sat Jul 06, 2013 9:40 pm

lite wrote:Please, I need step by step instructions on how to enter the stream.


Get yourself a boat .
One which preferably can take you all the way to the ocean.
Once you get your boat, find someone who can instruct you how to sail that boat.
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Re: Stream-entry help!

Postby kirtu » Sun Jul 07, 2013 1:26 am

lite wrote:Please, I need step by step instructions on how to enter the stream.


If you mean stream entry as in becoming a Stream Enterer following the Sravaka school classifications - well this is transcendental and you have three factors to abandon: personality-view, doubt, and attachment to rules and vows. So aStream Enterer has no doubt in the Buddha's teaching and they do not hold a view that mere following rules and vows accomplishes anything positive (this can be subtle) and they had abandoned the personality-view which can also be subtle but basically it means that they see that a permanent self-existent self really doesn't exist. Then the positive qualities that accompany this level of attainment are grouped into five categories but are basically having full faith in the Buddha Dharma, being constantly moral (at least seeming so because the Stream Enterer has not cut lust for example and some Stream Enterers in the Pali canon had moral issues with alcohol), craving is basically cut, they are developing wisdom. Basically they are developing the full fruition of goodness, morality and kindness.

If you mean just entering the stream turning away from the lower realms, then take sincere refuge in the Buddha, Dharma and Sangha (which means that the Buddha as the teacher and the Dharma as the teaching are the protection you seek from a negative rebirth and the Sangha [really the Noble Sangha of Arhats and high Bodhisattvas] are the accompaniment and guidance on the path), vow to be moral and cultivate kindness and compassion.

AH! I didn't see that this was in the meditation forum. So: for now meditate on lovingkindness for all beings.

Kirt
Kirt's Tibetan Translation Notes

“All beings are Buddhas, but obscured by incidental stains. When those have been removed, there is Buddhahood.”
Hevajra Tantra
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Re: Stream-entry help!

Postby Jinzang » Sun Jul 07, 2013 1:43 am

What's that old joke about how to get to Carnegie Hall? Practice, practice.
Lamrim, lojong, and mahamudra are the unmistaken path.
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Re: Stream-entry help!

Postby lite » Sun Jul 07, 2013 11:42 am

So I sit, close my eyes, and do what exactly?
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Re: Stream-entry help!

Postby justsit » Sun Jul 07, 2013 12:32 pm

Open your eyes and do this.
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Re: Stream-entry help!

Postby kirtu » Sun Jul 07, 2013 5:52 pm

Kirt's Tibetan Translation Notes

“All beings are Buddhas, but obscured by incidental stains. When those have been removed, there is Buddhahood.”
Hevajra Tantra
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Re: Stream-entry help!

Postby Jinzang » Mon Jul 08, 2013 1:06 am

lite wrote:So I sit, close my eyes, and do what exactly?


There are many books on Buddhist practice, you could start by reading this book by Ajahn Brahm (pdf).
Lamrim, lojong, and mahamudra are the unmistaken path.
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Re: Stream-entry help!

Postby lobster » Mon Jul 08, 2013 5:42 am

lite wrote:So I sit, close my eyes, and do what exactly?


What exactly are you trying to do? What exactly is this 'stream' entering for? :hi:
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Re: Stream-entry help!

Postby lite » Mon Jul 08, 2013 9:02 pm

I have calmed the mind, and now developing concentration by doing samatha meditation. Once I do that I can start with vipassana meditation.
What am I exactly trying to do is described by a monk on this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDDY4gOexVA
In Buddhism, a Sotāpanna, Srotāpanna, or "stream-winner" is a person who has eradicated the first three fetters of the mind. Sotapanna literally means "one who entered the stream", after a metaphor which calls the Noble Eightfold Path, 'a stream'. Sotapannaship is the first of the four stages of enlightenment.
I practice loving-kindness meditation occasionally.
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Re: Stream-entry help!

Postby Ayu » Mon Jul 08, 2013 9:17 pm

Sounds good. :smile:
Because, if our mothers, who have been kind to us
From beginningless time, are suffering,
What can we do with (just) our own happiness?
From 10th of 37 Bodhisattva Practices
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Re: Stream-entry help!

Postby kirtu » Mon Jul 08, 2013 10:45 pm

lite wrote:In Buddhism, a Sotāpanna, Srotāpanna, or "stream-winner" is a person who has eradicated the first three fetters of the mind.


In the Sravakayana - the main vehicle of personal liberation. Of course in the other yana's this is also recognized but the main aim in this vehicle is personal liberation.

Sotapannaship is the first of the four stages of enlightenment.


Again, in the Sravakayana. Sotopannaship is a stage of enlightenment, that's true. But following the Sravaka path to it's culmination results in the enlightenment of an Arhat (Arahant). This is pretty good but far from the perfect enlightenment of a Buddha or the merit of a Bodhisattva.

Kirt
Kirt's Tibetan Translation Notes

“All beings are Buddhas, but obscured by incidental stains. When those have been removed, there is Buddhahood.”
Hevajra Tantra
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Re: Stream-entry help!

Postby Astus » Tue Jul 09, 2013 10:39 am

"There is no such thing as the real mind. Ridding yourself of delusion: that's the real mind."
(Sheng-yen: Getting the Buddha Mind, p 73)

“Don’t rashly seek the true Buddha;
True Buddha can’t be found.
Does marvelous nature and spirit
Need tempering or refinement?
Mind is this mind carefree;
This face, the face at birth."

(Nanyue Mingzan: Enjoying the Way, tr. Jeff Shore; T51n2076, p461b24-26)
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Re: Stream-entry help!

Postby Ramon1920 » Wed Jul 10, 2013 9:24 am

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Re: Stream-entry help!

Postby lite » Wed Jul 10, 2013 12:59 pm

It's a study guide. I was looking for practice guide.
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Re: Stream-entry help!

Postby Astus » Wed Jul 10, 2013 1:25 pm

lite wrote:It's a study guide. I was looking for practice guide.


It includes practical teachings.
"There is no such thing as the real mind. Ridding yourself of delusion: that's the real mind."
(Sheng-yen: Getting the Buddha Mind, p 73)

“Don’t rashly seek the true Buddha;
True Buddha can’t be found.
Does marvelous nature and spirit
Need tempering or refinement?
Mind is this mind carefree;
This face, the face at birth."

(Nanyue Mingzan: Enjoying the Way, tr. Jeff Shore; T51n2076, p461b24-26)
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Re: Stream-entry help!

Postby hansen » Wed Jul 10, 2013 8:34 pm

Stream Entry as a goal might be over-rated. What are you going to do after Stream Entry? Sure you will have empirical certainty as to the Dhamma, but you'll still be lugging about all the baggage of attachment. It's better to view Non-Attachment as the Goal, isn't it?
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Re: Stream-entry help!

Postby hansen » Wed Jul 10, 2013 8:49 pm

So I sit, close my eyes, and do what exactly?

As suggested, maybe the quest is for something transcendental, e.g. the Divine or Eternal which is not found anywhere in the Universe, known or Unknown. I can only answer about meditation practice from the basis of my own experience, because all else coming from me would purely be conjecture, and the question is too important to be handled that way. So, I use my natural breathing as an object of meditation. This is consistent with Pali texts. But what makes it different than other meditation is that the entire context of experience has to be accounted for, for it to have any kind of meaning. It's a life for a life. Your trading this life for a different one. You are travelling from one set of possibilites to another. So, "mindfulness" means in part :quoteunquote: exactly that. Being aware that a transaction, on your part, is taking place. The result is transformation. The fun part is you really won't know what the transformation results in until you experience it.
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Re: Stream-entry help!

Postby Jose Chung » Wed Jul 10, 2013 8:55 pm

lite wrote:It's a study guide. I was looking for practice guide.


The guide by Thanissaro is a practice guide. Did you bother to read it? From the Introduction:

This study guide on stream entry is divided into two parts. The first deals with the practices leading to stream entry; the second, with the experience of stream entry and its results.

The practices leading to stream entry are encapsulated in four factors:

Association with people of integrity is a factor for stream-entry.

Listening to the true Dhamma is a factor for stream-entry.

Appropriate attention is a factor for stream-entry.

Practice in accordance with the Dhamma is a factor for stream-entry.


— SN 55.5


You might want to, you know, actually read the first section, the one describing "the practices leading to stream entry". It contains the Buddha's own instructions on how to cultivate each of the four factors listed above.

When you say "practice guide", I'm assuming you mean that you wanted a step by step meditation manual. There are plenty of those all over the internet, and if you were paying attention you'd have noticed that several have already been linked to in this thread.

If you are serious about attaining Stream Entry, you'll probably want to find a qualified teacher, learn meditation from them in person. You will also most likely find going on retreat conducive to attaining that goal.

I will say that asking one-liner questions on an internet forum is probably no way to get there. And frankly, you could have found all of the information provided here by doing a simple internet search, and judging from your reactions to the material presented you haven't even bothered to read what has been shared here. If you can't even put forth the effort to do your own research and read the materials others provide you, how do you expect to attain anything at all?
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Re: Stream-entry help!

Postby retrofuturist » Thu Jul 11, 2013 2:46 am

Greetings,

Jose Chung wrote:You might want to, you know, actually read the first section, the one describing "the practices leading to stream entry". It contains the Buddha's own instructions on how to cultivate each of the four factors listed above.

When you say "practice guide", I'm assuming you mean that you wanted a step by step meditation manual...

Well said, Jose.

Speaking from a Theravada perspective (as the aforemention guide does), I find it somewhat disturbing that many people regard "practice" as synonymous to "meditation", rather than as a comprehensive application of the Noble Eightfold Path.

Not saying that's necessarily what the OP is doing, but I appreciate you making this point clear as you have done.

Maitri,
Retro. :)
Live in concord, with mutual appreciation, without disputing, blending like milk and water, viewing each other with kindly eyes

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