Edward Bach

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greentara
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Edward Bach

Post by greentara »

I had to laugh reading about Bach and his strong belief in flower remedies for he even has a cure for: OVER CARE FOR THE WELFARE OF OTHERS - Chicory, Vervain, Vine, Beech, Rock Water.
As so many people don't care, I would have thought very few over care for the welfare of others.
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lobster
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Re: Edward Bach

Post by lobster »

The Bach flower remedies are too subtle for my course mind. I once purchased and immediately drank a whole rescue remedy in some new age setting. The look of panic over this 'public OD' was priceless until they realized I had just taken little more than a tiny shot of brandy . . .

For those of you more attuned to emptiness, try not to care too much . . . :zzz:
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Ayu
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Re: Edward Bach

Post by Ayu »

greentara wrote:I had to laugh reading about Bach and his strong belief in flower remedies for he even has a cure for: OVER CARE FOR THE WELFARE OF OTHERS - Chicory, Vervain, Vine, Beech, Rock Water.
As so many people don't care, I would have thought very few over care for the welfare of others.
I don't know how are the mothers in USA, but there is a type of old German Mother, who is very strenuous to be with:
She never stopps asking anxiously "How are you?", "Do you feel well?", "Are you hungry?", "But you MUST eat something.", "Will you pass your examination?", "What, if you don't pass your examination?", "You still look hungry. Eat!!!", "You have stomac pain? Let's call the doctor immediatly."
This is very exhausting and EVERYBODY would be glad, if this person was able to calm down and just do something nice for herself one time.
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Grigoris
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Re: Edward Bach

Post by Grigoris »

greentara wrote:I had to laugh reading about Bach and his strong belief in flower remedies for he even has a cure for: OVER CARE FOR THE WELFARE OF OTHERS - Chicory, Vervain, Vine, Beech, Rock Water.
I imagine it wouldn't be the top seller in his product range.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
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Ayu
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Re: Edward Bach

Post by Ayu »

gregkavarnos wrote:
greentara wrote:I had to laugh reading about Bach and his strong belief in flower remedies for he even has a cure for: OVER CARE FOR THE WELFARE OF OTHERS - Chicory, Vervain, Vine, Beech, Rock Water.
I imagine it wouldn't be the top seller in his product range.
I would give it to my mother-in-law, if it helps.
M.G.
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Re: Edward Bach

Post by M.G. »

I've taken one or two of Bach's flower remedies and I could definitely feel some effects on my subtle body and emotions. You could say it's all placebo, but I've been unable to perceive any effects from plenty of New Agey, and for that matter Old Agey, concoctions I've been exposed to.
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lobster
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Re: Edward Bach

Post by lobster »

M.G. wrote:I've taken one or two of Bach's flower remedies and I could definitely feel some effects on my subtle body and emotions. You could say it's all placebo, but I've been unable to perceive any effects from plenty of New Agey, and for that matter Old Agey, concoctions I've been exposed to.
No doubt.

Try mint bush
from the Australian Bush Flower remedies
and let us know if it moves you on . . . :thumbsup:
M.G.
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Re: Edward Bach

Post by M.G. »

lobster wrote:
M.G. wrote:I've taken one or two of Bach's flower remedies and I could definitely feel some effects on my subtle body and emotions. You could say it's all placebo, but I've been unable to perceive any effects from plenty of New Agey, and for that matter Old Agey, concoctions I've been exposed to.
No doubt.

Try mint bush
from the Australian Bush Flower remedies
and let us know if it moves you on . . . :thumbsup:
(By "Old Agey" I was referring to traditional herbal remedies; wasn't trying to make any snide comments.)
Simon E.
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Re: Edward Bach

Post by Simon E. »

M.G. wrote:I've taken one or two of Bach's flower remedies and I could definitely feel some effects on my subtle body and emotions. You could say it's all placebo, but I've been unable to perceive any effects from plenty of New Agey, and for that matter Old Agey, concoctions I've been exposed to.
Yes indeed. I could indeed say its all placebo. Thank goodness for free speech.
“You don’t know it. You just know about it. That is not the same thing.”

Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche to me.
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lobster
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Re: Edward Bach

Post by lobster »

M.G. wrote:(By "Old Agey" I was referring to traditional herbal remedies; wasn't trying to make any snide comments.)
No doubt.

By saying, 'no doubt', I have no doubt you felt what you say.
Other people prefer the effects of Johan Sebastian Bach for mood changing . . .

Meanwhile the efficacy of placebos increase . . .
http://www.wired.com/medtech/drugs/maga ... ntPage=all
Simon E.
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Re: Edward Bach

Post by Simon E. »

No one says that placebos never work. The issue is the mechanism by which they
can work.
Which almost certainly has nothing to do with the spurious pseudo philosophies that are employed to explain;
Bach Flower Remedies, Reiki, Homeopathy.

And a host of other high earning quackeries.
“You don’t know it. You just know about it. That is not the same thing.”

Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche to me.
M.G.
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Re: Edward Bach

Post by M.G. »

Hmmmm.... I've taken reiki initiations (for free, by the way, from my ex-GF, and I don't practice professionally, so I have nothing to gain here by even slightly praising it) and I wouldn't consider it quackery in the sense that nothing beyond placebo happened, although I don't take the mythology to heart and honestly never found whatever it puts me in touch with especially useful for anything. My sense is that It's like a very dim night-light; it generates something but its too dim to be of much good.

Anyway, if one believes that things referenced in Buddhist texts like siddhis or devas have any sort of non-metaphorical reality, or that, say, lower tantric rites have efficacy beyond placebo (and you may not accept either proposition) I see nothing hugely improbable about suggesting that at least some New Agey stuff may also have at least slight value beyond placebo. That there's a lot of fuzzy headed-ness in that zone isn't contested here.
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Re: Edward Bach

Post by Stewart »

Simon E. wrote:No one says that placebos never work. The issue is the mechanism by which they
can work.
Which almost certainly has nothing to do with the spurious pseudo philosophies that are employed to explain;
Bach Flower Remedies, Reiki, Homeopathy.

And a host of other high earning quackeries.

I agree, Bach and Homoeopathy are two of my 'pet hates'...I know people who are so defensive, to the point of getting angry, about them....but seriously how does it work? I mean herbal medicine at least has some identifiable substance and results, where as homoeopathy and bach is just, well...water.

When asked about Reiki, a Lama I know, who is also a Tibetan Doctor remarked 'it's about as beneficial as a haircut'!
s.
M.G.
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Re: Edward Bach

Post by M.G. »

Stewart wrote:
Simon E. wrote:No one says that placebos never work. The issue is the mechanism by which they
can work.
Which almost certainly has nothing to do with the spurious pseudo philosophies that are employed to explain;
Bach Flower Remedies, Reiki, Homeopathy.

And a host of other high earning quackeries.

I agree, Bach and Homoeopathy are two of my 'pet hates'...I know people who are so defensive, to the point of getting angry, about them....but seriously how does it work? I mean herbal medicine at least has some identifiable substance and results, where as homoeopathy and bach is just, well...water.

When asked about Reiki, a Lama I know, who is also a Tibetan Doctor remarked 'it's about as beneficial as a haircut'!
As mentioned above, my experience re: reiki, is that it does something beyond placebo, but not very much, and isn't very useful. That said, I can personally introduce you to relatively informed people who feel about aspects of Vajrayana much as you do about New Agey stuff.
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Re: Edward Bach

Post by Stewart »

Who said I believe everything that's said in Vajrayana?

What I do know of Reiki is that it claims a lineage and pedigree which are just pure fiction...also one can become a 'master' in a ridiculously short time, which just adds to it's reputation as bs.
s.
Simon E.
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Re: Edward Bach

Post by Simon E. »

Stewart wrote:
Simon E. wrote:No one says that placebos never work. The issue is the mechanism by which they
can work.
Which almost certainly has nothing to do with the spurious pseudo philosophies that are employed to explain;
Bach Flower Remedies, Reiki, Homeopathy.

And a host of other high earning quackeries.

I agree, Bach and Homoeopathy are two of my 'pet hates'...I know people who are so defensive, to the point of getting angry, about them....but seriously how does it work? I mean herbal medicine at least has some identifiable substance and results, where as homoeopathy and bach is just, well...water.

When asked about Reiki, a Lama I know, who is also a Tibetan Doctor remarked 'it's about as beneficial as a haircut'!
I think that Lama was too kind. After all if you need a haircut, then a haircuts just the job ! :smile:
“You don’t know it. You just know about it. That is not the same thing.”

Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche to me.
M.G.
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Re: Edward Bach

Post by M.G. »

Stewart wrote:Who said I believe everything that's said in Vajrayana?

What I do know of Reiki is that it claims a lineage and pedigree which are just pure fiction...also one can become a 'master' in a ridiculously short time, which just adds to it's reputation as bs.
Fair enough if you don't believe everything said in Vajrayana. Certainly from a cold skeptical perspective, an awful lot of Eastern religion is as suspect as any New Agery. (Which I would agree all too often indulges in a lot of fantasy and at times fraud.) Its a bit like what Trey Stone and Matt Parker said about Mormonism - "its the nuttiest religion out there, except for the one you believe in."

Tying the two topics together, I'll venture this; at the one New Age convention I attended, I ran into a self-proclaimed clairvoyant reiki healer. When asked to demonstrate her psychicism, she described, in fairly good detail, the presence of my most practiced dharmapala in what she called my "field", right down to skin colour and facial features, without me having mentioned I was a Buddhist and with no malas or ritual objects on my person. No money was exchanged and this was in the context of private conversation, so I assume no scams were involved. So yes, I have seen what I would consider valid evidence that at least some of what goes on in the New Age scene extends beyond placebo.
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Re: Edward Bach

Post by Jinzang »

Stewart wrote:I agree, Bach and Homoeopathy are two of my 'pet hates'...I know people who are so defensive, to the point of getting angry, about them....but seriously how does it work?
If you hate them, it sounds like you're the one who's getting angry.
"It's as plain as the nose on your face!" Dottie Primrose
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flavio81
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Re: Edward Bach

Post by flavio81 »

Simon E. wrote:
M.G. wrote:I've taken one or two of Bach's flower remedies and I could definitely feel some effects on my subtle body and emotions. You could say it's all placebo, but I've been unable to perceive any effects from plenty of New Agey, and for that matter Old Agey, concoctions I've been exposed to.
Yes indeed. I could indeed say its all placebo. Thank goodness for free speech.
It is probably placebo, but i would gladly take a placebo that has the chance to heal me in some way, than nothing at all...

Homeopathy drugs are, according to science, devoid from any active principle. However, due to the placebo effect, they might work, you know.
M.G.
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Re: Edward Bach

Post by M.G. »

flavio81 wrote:
Simon E. wrote:
M.G. wrote:I've taken one or two of Bach's flower remedies and I could definitely feel some effects on my subtle body and emotions. You could say it's all placebo, but I've been unable to perceive any effects from plenty of New Agey, and for that matter Old Agey, concoctions I've been exposed to.
Yes indeed. I could indeed say its all placebo. Thank goodness for free speech.
It is probably placebo, but i would gladly take a placebo that has the chance to heal me in some way, than nothing at all...

Homeopathy drugs are, according to science, devoid from any active principle. However, due to the placebo effect, they might work, you know.
If something like Bach's formulas work beyond placebo, it would be through non-local resonance, a.k.a., magical action. I think Bach himself actually said something like this.

I wouldn't exactly be shocked if it was just placebo, but on the other hand, I'm open to the possibility that magical action can be efficacious outside of the context of the tantras or other Buddhist lore.
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