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 Post subject: Edward Bach
PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2013 12:00 am 
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I had to laugh reading about Bach and his strong belief in flower remedies for he even has a cure for: OVER CARE FOR THE WELFARE OF OTHERS - Chicory, Vervain, Vine, Beech, Rock Water.
As so many people don't care, I would have thought very few over care for the welfare of others.


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 Post subject: Re: Edward Bach
PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2013 8:12 am 
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The Bach flower remedies are too subtle for my course mind. I once purchased and immediately drank a whole rescue remedy in some new age setting. The look of panic over this 'public OD' was priceless until they realized I had just taken little more than a tiny shot of brandy . . .

For those of you more attuned to emptiness, try not to care too much . . . :zzz:

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 Post subject: Re: Edward Bach
PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2013 9:25 am 
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greentara wrote:
I had to laugh reading about Bach and his strong belief in flower remedies for he even has a cure for: OVER CARE FOR THE WELFARE OF OTHERS - Chicory, Vervain, Vine, Beech, Rock Water.
As so many people don't care, I would have thought very few over care for the welfare of others.

I don't know how are the mothers in USA, but there is a type of old German Mother, who is very strenuous to be with:
She never stopps asking anxiously "How are you?", "Do you feel well?", "Are you hungry?", "But you MUST eat something.", "Will you pass your examination?", "What, if you don't pass your examination?", "You still look hungry. Eat!!!", "You have stomac pain? Let's call the doctor immediatly."
This is very exhausting and EVERYBODY would be glad, if this person was able to calm down and just do something nice for herself one time.

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 Post subject: Re: Edward Bach
PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2013 2:20 pm 
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greentara wrote:
I had to laugh reading about Bach and his strong belief in flower remedies for he even has a cure for: OVER CARE FOR THE WELFARE OF OTHERS - Chicory, Vervain, Vine, Beech, Rock Water.
I imagine it wouldn't be the top seller in his product range.

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 Post subject: Re: Edward Bach
PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2013 2:22 pm 
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gregkavarnos wrote:
greentara wrote:
I had to laugh reading about Bach and his strong belief in flower remedies for he even has a cure for: OVER CARE FOR THE WELFARE OF OTHERS - Chicory, Vervain, Vine, Beech, Rock Water.
I imagine it wouldn't be the top seller in his product range.


I would give it to my mother-in-law, if it helps.

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 Post subject: Re: Edward Bach
PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2013 2:43 am 
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I've taken one or two of Bach's flower remedies and I could definitely feel some effects on my subtle body and emotions. You could say it's all placebo, but I've been unable to perceive any effects from plenty of New Agey, and for that matter Old Agey, concoctions I've been exposed to.


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 Post subject: Re: Edward Bach
PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2013 5:32 am 
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M.G. wrote:
I've taken one or two of Bach's flower remedies and I could definitely feel some effects on my subtle body and emotions. You could say it's all placebo, but I've been unable to perceive any effects from plenty of New Agey, and for that matter Old Agey, concoctions I've been exposed to.


No doubt.

Try mint bush
from the Australian Bush Flower remedies
and let us know if it moves you on . . . :thumbsup:

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 Post subject: Re: Edward Bach
PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2013 6:46 am 
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lobster wrote:
M.G. wrote:
I've taken one or two of Bach's flower remedies and I could definitely feel some effects on my subtle body and emotions. You could say it's all placebo, but I've been unable to perceive any effects from plenty of New Agey, and for that matter Old Agey, concoctions I've been exposed to.


No doubt.

Try mint bush
from the Australian Bush Flower remedies
and let us know if it moves you on . . . :thumbsup:


(By "Old Agey" I was referring to traditional herbal remedies; wasn't trying to make any snide comments.)


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 Post subject: Re: Edward Bach
PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2013 7:34 am 
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M.G. wrote:
I've taken one or two of Bach's flower remedies and I could definitely feel some effects on my subtle body and emotions. You could say it's all placebo, but I've been unable to perceive any effects from plenty of New Agey, and for that matter Old Agey, concoctions I've been exposed to.

Yes indeed. I could indeed say its all placebo. Thank goodness for free speech.


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 Post subject: Re: Edward Bach
PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2013 9:32 am 
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M.G. wrote:
(By "Old Agey" I was referring to traditional herbal remedies; wasn't trying to make any snide comments.)


No doubt.

By saying, 'no doubt', I have no doubt you felt what you say.
Other people prefer the effects of Johan Sebastian Bach for mood changing . . .

Meanwhile the efficacy of placebos increase . . .
http://www.wired.com/medtech/drugs/maga ... ntPage=all

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 Post subject: Re: Edward Bach
PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2013 11:54 am 
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No one says that placebos never work. The issue is the mechanism by which they
can work.
Which almost certainly has nothing to do with the spurious pseudo philosophies that are employed to explain;
Bach Flower Remedies, Reiki, Homeopathy.

And a host of other high earning quackeries.


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 Post subject: Re: Edward Bach
PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2013 1:11 pm 
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Hmmmm.... I've taken reiki initiations (for free, by the way, from my ex-GF, and I don't practice professionally, so I have nothing to gain here by even slightly praising it) and I wouldn't consider it quackery in the sense that nothing beyond placebo happened, although I don't take the mythology to heart and honestly never found whatever it puts me in touch with especially useful for anything. My sense is that It's like a very dim night-light; it generates something but its too dim to be of much good.

Anyway, if one believes that things referenced in Buddhist texts like siddhis or devas have any sort of non-metaphorical reality, or that, say, lower tantric rites have efficacy beyond placebo (and you may not accept either proposition) I see nothing hugely improbable about suggesting that at least some New Agey stuff may also have at least slight value beyond placebo. That there's a lot of fuzzy headed-ness in that zone isn't contested here.


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 Post subject: Re: Edward Bach
PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2013 1:20 pm 
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Simon E. wrote:
No one says that placebos never work. The issue is the mechanism by which they
can work.
Which almost certainly has nothing to do with the spurious pseudo philosophies that are employed to explain;
Bach Flower Remedies, Reiki, Homeopathy.

And a host of other high earning quackeries.



I agree, Bach and Homoeopathy are two of my 'pet hates'...I know people who are so defensive, to the point of getting angry, about them....but seriously how does it work? I mean herbal medicine at least has some identifiable substance and results, where as homoeopathy and bach is just, well...water.

When asked about Reiki, a Lama I know, who is also a Tibetan Doctor remarked 'it's about as beneficial as a haircut'!

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 Post subject: Re: Edward Bach
PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2013 1:32 pm 
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Stewart wrote:
Simon E. wrote:
No one says that placebos never work. The issue is the mechanism by which they
can work.
Which almost certainly has nothing to do with the spurious pseudo philosophies that are employed to explain;
Bach Flower Remedies, Reiki, Homeopathy.

And a host of other high earning quackeries.



I agree, Bach and Homoeopathy are two of my 'pet hates'...I know people who are so defensive, to the point of getting angry, about them....but seriously how does it work? I mean herbal medicine at least has some identifiable substance and results, where as homoeopathy and bach is just, well...water.

When asked about Reiki, a Lama I know, who is also a Tibetan Doctor remarked 'it's about as beneficial as a haircut'!


As mentioned above, my experience re: reiki, is that it does something beyond placebo, but not very much, and isn't very useful. That said, I can personally introduce you to relatively informed people who feel about aspects of Vajrayana much as you do about New Agey stuff.


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 Post subject: Re: Edward Bach
PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2013 1:49 pm 
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Who said I believe everything that's said in Vajrayana?

What I do know of Reiki is that it claims a lineage and pedigree which are just pure fiction...also one can become a 'master' in a ridiculously short time, which just adds to it's reputation as bs.

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 Post subject: Re: Edward Bach
PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2013 1:55 pm 
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Stewart wrote:
Simon E. wrote:
No one says that placebos never work. The issue is the mechanism by which they
can work.
Which almost certainly has nothing to do with the spurious pseudo philosophies that are employed to explain;
Bach Flower Remedies, Reiki, Homeopathy.

And a host of other high earning quackeries.



I agree, Bach and Homoeopathy are two of my 'pet hates'...I know people who are so defensive, to the point of getting angry, about them....but seriously how does it work? I mean herbal medicine at least has some identifiable substance and results, where as homoeopathy and bach is just, well...water.

When asked about Reiki, a Lama I know, who is also a Tibetan Doctor remarked 'it's about as beneficial as a haircut'!

I think that Lama was too kind. After all if you need a haircut, then a haircuts just the job ! :smile:


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 Post subject: Re: Edward Bach
PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2013 2:14 pm 
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Stewart wrote:
Who said I believe everything that's said in Vajrayana?

What I do know of Reiki is that it claims a lineage and pedigree which are just pure fiction...also one can become a 'master' in a ridiculously short time, which just adds to it's reputation as bs.


Fair enough if you don't believe everything said in Vajrayana. Certainly from a cold skeptical perspective, an awful lot of Eastern religion is as suspect as any New Agery. (Which I would agree all too often indulges in a lot of fantasy and at times fraud.) Its a bit like what Trey Stone and Matt Parker said about Mormonism - "its the nuttiest religion out there, except for the one you believe in."

Tying the two topics together, I'll venture this; at the one New Age convention I attended, I ran into a self-proclaimed clairvoyant reiki healer. When asked to demonstrate her psychicism, she described, in fairly good detail, the presence of my most practiced dharmapala in what she called my "field", right down to skin colour and facial features, without me having mentioned I was a Buddhist and with no malas or ritual objects on my person. No money was exchanged and this was in the context of private conversation, so I assume no scams were involved. So yes, I have seen what I would consider valid evidence that at least some of what goes on in the New Age scene extends beyond placebo.


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 Post subject: Re: Edward Bach
PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2013 9:54 pm 
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Stewart wrote:
I agree, Bach and Homoeopathy are two of my 'pet hates'...I know people who are so defensive, to the point of getting angry, about them....but seriously how does it work?


If you hate them, it sounds like you're the one who's getting angry.

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 Post subject: Re: Edward Bach
PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2013 10:05 pm 
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Simon E. wrote:
M.G. wrote:
I've taken one or two of Bach's flower remedies and I could definitely feel some effects on my subtle body and emotions. You could say it's all placebo, but I've been unable to perceive any effects from plenty of New Agey, and for that matter Old Agey, concoctions I've been exposed to.

Yes indeed. I could indeed say its all placebo. Thank goodness for free speech.


It is probably placebo, but i would gladly take a placebo that has the chance to heal me in some way, than nothing at all...

Homeopathy drugs are, according to science, devoid from any active principle. However, due to the placebo effect, they might work, you know.


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 Post subject: Re: Edward Bach
PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2013 10:15 pm 
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flavio81 wrote:
Simon E. wrote:
M.G. wrote:
I've taken one or two of Bach's flower remedies and I could definitely feel some effects on my subtle body and emotions. You could say it's all placebo, but I've been unable to perceive any effects from plenty of New Agey, and for that matter Old Agey, concoctions I've been exposed to.

Yes indeed. I could indeed say its all placebo. Thank goodness for free speech.


It is probably placebo, but i would gladly take a placebo that has the chance to heal me in some way, than nothing at all...

Homeopathy drugs are, according to science, devoid from any active principle. However, due to the placebo effect, they might work, you know.


If something like Bach's formulas work beyond placebo, it would be through non-local resonance, a.k.a., magical action. I think Bach himself actually said something like this.

I wouldn't exactly be shocked if it was just placebo, but on the other hand, I'm open to the possibility that magical action can be efficacious outside of the context of the tantras or other Buddhist lore.


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