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Craving while being mindful? - Dhamma Wheel

Craving while being mindful?

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
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adosa
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Craving while being mindful?

Postby adosa » Sat Feb 18, 2012 4:44 pm

Can craving arise while being completely mindful? Or at the moment craving arises, is that a signal that mindfulness has stopped and mental proliferation or fabrication has started?

Thanks

adosa
"To avoid all evil, to cultivate good, and to cleanse one's mind — this is the teaching of the Buddhas" - Dhammapada 183

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kirk5a
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Re: Craving while being mindful?

Postby kirk5a » Sat Feb 18, 2012 4:54 pm

"When one thing is practiced & pursued, ignorance is abandoned, clear knowing arises, the conceit 'I am' is abandoned, latent tendencies are uprooted, fetters are abandoned. Which one thing? Mindfulness immersed in the body." -AN 1.230

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RMSmith
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Re: Craving while being mindful?

Postby RMSmith » Sat Feb 18, 2012 5:19 pm

Of course. But you don't react to it ... only recognize ... due to being mindful.
-----------
Rick



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DarwidHalim
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Re: Craving while being mindful?

Postby DarwidHalim » Sun Feb 19, 2012 4:29 am

Yes. Not only craving. Even anger, jealousy, all of them come out.

However, there are a big differences for someone who not mindful, who just mindful (but haven't realized emptiness), and who has experienced the emptiness.

For someone who are not mindful, when anger, jealously, craving arise, they will go haywire.

For someone who just mindful (who haven't experience the emptiness), the best thing they can experience is knowing the arising of that anger, craving, jealousy, etc. Since they haven't experience emptiness, the best thing they can do is just relying on antidote, such as oh don't get angry, no point to be jealous, all are impermanent, don't attach to this and that. All of them are antidote.

These are all good. But, these method are artificial.

But for those who has trained until they realize emptiness, they reach the state of the union between appearances and emptiness, the union between diversities and emptiness.

Because they can see their is no self in the craving which is arising, in the anger which is arising, in the jealousy which is arising, they are unaffected by all of anger, jealousy, craving etc. There are no antidote at all in calming them. Really naked. Just like that, not affected at all.

For someone who has realized emptiness, when the anger arise, in one corner in their mind, there will be a notion of now anger arises, now craving arises, now jealousy arises. But at another corner the wisdom of emptiness and the confident in it, will just look at it and know strait away, this is not anger, this is not jealousy, because they know exactly through seeing all of them as being no identity. Because they see vividly there is no identity, thy know exactly this is not anger, or craving, EVEN when their mind make a story this is anger, jealousy and so on.

The story of mind can fool the ignorant. But, the story of mind cannot fool anyone who has realize the non-identity (wisdom of emptiness).

When the wisdom of emptiness has improved so strong, the story of mind telling anger, jealousy, or craving will no longer appear. At that time, every diversity of feeling, every diversity of appearances, every diversity of thought are the expression of the dharmakaya.

The energy of anger which is feeled as something destructive, now due to your ability that as actually the expression of dharmakaya will just give you bliss, serene, and restful.

Everything will be like that.

You will naturally free from attachment, grasping, etc. even you want to grasp, you also cannot grasp anymore. Even you want to attach, you also cannot attach anymore. All of them because your wisdom of no identity has been fully develop, where you can see vividly both your side and other side have no identity. You cannot have any basis at all to grasp or attach or to crave. Absolutely free.

In order to make you be able to see the emptiness of craving, that is why never ever remove or modify your craving. Same thing with anger, when anger arise, never ever modify or change your anger. All of them are the opportunity for you to keep quiet and just see them, actually who are they. Slowly you will come to this no identity notion.

Same thing with pain. Actually pain is a very good opportunity for the meditator to have the chance to see the true face of that pain. If you can see the true nature of that pain, which is no identity and you can see you yourself also has no identity straight away your grasping gone. The pain is no longer pain, that feelin is just there, but you no longer see that as pain. You will see they are not disturbances, and not pain. You can feel extremely comfortable with that feeling which previously you called pain. That feeling will not gone. It is still there. But one thing, you will just feel serene and restful with that feeling.

When you can master it, you have realize the union of feeling and emptiness. From that point onwards, you are not in the fangs of feeling anymore.

All feelings are welcome, all appearances are welcome, all diversity are welcome.

In all those diversity of feeling, appearances, whatever they are, you are just serene and restful.

That is the power of wisdom of emptiness.
I am not here nor there.
I am not right nor wrong.
I do not exist neither non-exist.
I am not I nor non-I.
I am not in samsara nor nirvana.
To All Buddhas, I bow down for the teaching of emptiness. Thank You!

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Goofaholix
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Re: Craving while being mindful?

Postby Goofaholix » Sun Feb 19, 2012 8:54 am


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Ben
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Re: Craving while being mindful?

Postby Ben » Sun Feb 19, 2012 9:10 am

“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

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retrofuturist
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Re: Craving while being mindful?

Postby retrofuturist » Sun Feb 19, 2012 9:16 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Ben
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Re: Craving while being mindful?

Postby Ben » Sun Feb 19, 2012 9:21 am

Hi Retro,
When one observes closely one can separate the experience of vedana (hunger, chill, etc) from the affective response of craving to the vedana.
kind regards,

Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

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tiltbillings
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Re: Craving while being mindful?

Postby tiltbillings » Sun Feb 19, 2012 9:47 am


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retrofuturist
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Re: Craving while being mindful?

Postby retrofuturist » Sun Feb 19, 2012 9:58 am

Greetings Tilt,

Quite how you came to that reading, I have no idea. Maybe you didn't see it in terms of the flow of the conversation and read the post in isolation?

Anyway, I was saying that what Goof was calling "craving", isn't tanha.

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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tiltbillings
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Re: Craving while being mindful?

Postby tiltbillings » Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:19 am


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Goofaholix
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Re: Craving while being mindful?

Postby Goofaholix » Sun Feb 19, 2012 7:00 pm


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bodom
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Re: Craving while being mindful?

Postby bodom » Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:24 pm

To study is to know the texts,
To practice is to know your defilements,
To attain the goal is to know and let go.

- Ajahn Lee Dhammadharo


With mindfulness immersed in the body
well established, restrained
with regard to the six media of contact,
always centered, the monk
can know Unbinding for himself.

- Ud 3.5


https://www.dhammatalks.org/index.html
http://www.ajahnchah.org/

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mikenz66
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Re: Craving while being mindful?

Postby mikenz66 » Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:58 pm

Hi Bodom,

That's a good example. My recollection from one of Ajahn Sumedho's recorded talks was that there were many attractive nurse, but I may be misremembering. He also said that Ajahn Chah was so impressed that he put the "Chorp, mai ao." (like, don't want) line into all his Dhamma talks for the next week or two...

:anjali:
Mike

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Goofaholix
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Re: Craving while being mindful?

Postby Goofaholix » Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:21 pm


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reflection
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Re: Craving while being mindful?

Postby reflection » Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:58 pm


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adosa
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Re: Craving while being mindful?

Postby adosa » Mon Feb 20, 2012 12:42 am

"To avoid all evil, to cultivate good, and to cleanse one's mind — this is the teaching of the Buddhas" - Dhammapada 183

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adosa
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Re: Craving while being mindful?

Postby adosa » Mon Feb 20, 2012 1:06 am

"To avoid all evil, to cultivate good, and to cleanse one's mind — this is the teaching of the Buddhas" - Dhammapada 183

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ground
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Re: Craving while being mindful?

Postby ground » Mon Feb 20, 2012 7:08 am


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tiltbillings
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Re: Craving while being mindful?

Postby tiltbillings » Mon Feb 20, 2012 7:23 am



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