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He trains himself...relinquishment - Dhamma Wheel

He trains himself...relinquishment

General discussion of issues related to Theravada Meditation, e.g. meditation postures, developing a regular sitting practice, skillfully relating to difficulties and hindrances, etc.
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Cal
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He trains himself...relinquishment

Postby Cal » Sat Feb 18, 2012 5:32 pm




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Sam Vara
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Re: He trains himself...relinquishment

Postby Sam Vara » Sat Feb 18, 2012 5:46 pm


santa100
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Re: He trains himself...relinquishment

Postby santa100 » Sat Feb 18, 2012 6:14 pm

Actually you can use the breath as the topic for insight. The breath comes in and out, in and out,...that's "inconstancy". The in-breath's "fading away" to give rise to the out-breath. The in-breath then "ceases" to give rise to the out-breath. The in-breath then was "relinquished", etc.. Insight is consistently developed, first based on the breath and then eventually extended to all other phenomena in life..

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Aloka
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Re: He trains himself...relinquishment

Postby Aloka » Sat Feb 18, 2012 6:39 pm

I wonder if this might be helpful, Cal.






:anjali:

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Cittasanto
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Re: He trains himself...relinquishment

Postby Cittasanto » Sun Feb 19, 2012 12:53 am

Hi Cal
Take a deep breath in, hold it for a moment, now exhale, notice the relaxation the softening, the relinquishing of the breath!
Personally I would say they can be combined in every moment of grasping, not just one session for one 'focus'. one sees the uncertainty of something being a stable foundation for happiness so is unsatisfactory, dispassion arises and so does the cessation of its allure.

breathing in focusing upon relinquishment is seeing that something is needed yet not satisfactory, so no passion rises for it. like with food, breathing, or even friendship.


He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

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RMSmith
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Re: He trains himself...relinquishment

Postby RMSmith » Sun Feb 19, 2012 1:43 am

Great info. Thanks for this. :clap:
-----------
Rick



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retrofuturist
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Re: He trains himself...relinquishment

Postby retrofuturist » Sun Feb 19, 2012 5:27 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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ground
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Re: He trains himself...relinquishment

Postby ground » Sun Feb 19, 2012 8:00 am

You may go directly to relinquishment and skip unnecessary detours ... if unnecessary

Kind regards

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Cal
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Re: He trains himself...relinquishment

Postby Cal » Sun Feb 19, 2012 5:01 pm

Many thanks for all the varied suggestions.

Cal :anjali:



nameless
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Re: He trains himself...relinquishment

Postby nameless » Thu Feb 23, 2012 3:30 pm


Source
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Re: He trains himself...relinquishment

Postby Source » Thu Feb 23, 2012 10:49 pm

Anupubbikatha: teaching step-by-step, in proper sequence; he teaches the principles or subject matter in order, from easy to abstruse, shallow to profound, in logical progression. (A.III.184)

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Dmytro
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Re: He trains himself...relinquishment

Postby Dmytro » Fri Feb 24, 2012 4:50 am



Source
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Re: He trains himself...relinquishment

Postby Source » Fri Feb 24, 2012 10:59 pm

Anupubbikatha: teaching step-by-step, in proper sequence; he teaches the principles or subject matter in order, from easy to abstruse, shallow to profound, in logical progression. (A.III.184)

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Cittasanto
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Re: He trains himself...relinquishment

Postby Cittasanto » Sat Feb 25, 2012 12:06 am

Hi Source,
I doubt we have met before so Hi & welcome to DW!

Dmytro has shown that the list is not necessarily sequential.
although if sequential why is rapture happening before the mind (9-12 in the list) is turned to, where the concentration, of the sort you use as proof, begins (no.11)?

just to note there is a instruction outside of the 16 areas & four tetrads which ends with "Always mindful, he breathes in; mindful he breathes out" essentially this supports the idea that each area can be taken individually, or as a group (tetrad or whole).

and can you provide a reference to show the Saññas are only consecutive steps?


He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

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amtross
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Re: He trains himself...relinquishment

Postby amtross » Sat Feb 25, 2012 6:25 am

I think Thanissaro Bhikkhu's point is that you can experience Rapture before you have mastered the prior steps. Assuming some sort of Bodily calming is a prerequisite for rapture (and I'm not sure this is true) then isn't it possible that partial calming could produce a lower level of rapture? I imagine most, if not all, folks who sit down to meditate on a regular basis can calm the body at least to some extent. But, mastering the calming of the bodily formation requires some practice.

Source
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Re: He trains himself...relinquishment

Postby Source » Sat Feb 25, 2012 8:55 am

Last edited by Source on Sat Feb 25, 2012 10:38 am, edited 2 times in total.
Anupubbikatha: teaching step-by-step, in proper sequence; he teaches the principles or subject matter in order, from easy to abstruse, shallow to profound, in logical progression. (A.III.184)

Source
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Re: He trains himself...relinquishment

Postby Source » Sat Feb 25, 2012 10:28 am

Anupubbikatha: teaching step-by-step, in proper sequence; he teaches the principles or subject matter in order, from easy to abstruse, shallow to profound, in logical progression. (A.III.184)

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Cittasanto
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Re: He trains himself...relinquishment

Postby Cittasanto » Sat Feb 25, 2012 12:23 pm



He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

User avatar
Cittasanto
Posts: 6524
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 10:31 pm
Location: Ellan Vannin
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Re: He trains himself...relinquishment

Postby Cittasanto » Sat Feb 25, 2012 12:29 pm



He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

Source
Posts: 8
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 6:28 am

Re: He trains himself...relinquishment

Postby Source » Sat Feb 25, 2012 7:51 pm

Anupubbikatha: teaching step-by-step, in proper sequence; he teaches the principles or subject matter in order, from easy to abstruse, shallow to profound, in logical progression. (A.III.184)


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