Third precept clarification
Third precept clarification
The act of making out with someone's wife or girlfriend. Is that also sexual misconduct?
Re: Third precept clarification
If it disrupts social harmony and causes ill feelings amongst some of the related parties, then yes, it is misconduct and should be avoided.
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Re: Third precept clarification
Yes - whether anyone else knows about it or not.Nighthawk wrote:The act of making out with someone's wife or girlfriend. Is that also sexual misconduct?
May all seek, find & follow the Path of Buddhas.
Re: Third precept clarification
Well that's a bummer... jk. Thanks.
Re: Third precept clarification
You mean someone else's wife or girlfriend? Then yes.Nighthawk wrote:The act of making out with someone's wife or girlfriend. Is that also sexual misconduct?
Kirt
“Where do atomic bombs come from?”
Zen Master Seung Sahn said, “That’s simple. Atomic bombs come from the mind that likes this and doesn’t like that.”
"Even if you practice only for an hour a day with faith and inspiration, good qualities will steadily increase. Regular practice makes it easy to transform your mind. From seeing only relative truth, you will eventually reach a profound certainty in the meaning of absolute truth."
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"Only you can make your mind beautiful."
HH Chetsang Rinpoche
Zen Master Seung Sahn said, “That’s simple. Atomic bombs come from the mind that likes this and doesn’t like that.”
"Even if you practice only for an hour a day with faith and inspiration, good qualities will steadily increase. Regular practice makes it easy to transform your mind. From seeing only relative truth, you will eventually reach a profound certainty in the meaning of absolute truth."
Kyabje Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche.
"Only you can make your mind beautiful."
HH Chetsang Rinpoche
Re: Third precept clarification
I recall reading somewhere that even giving a flower to someone else's lover is sexual misconduct. I forgot where I read that though.
Equanimity is the ground. Love is the moisture. Compassion is the seed. Bodhicitta is the result.
-Paraphrase of Khensur Rinpoche Lobsang Tsephel citing the Guhyasamaja Tantra
"All memories and thoughts are the union of emptiness and knowing, the Mind.
Without attachment, self-liberating, like a snake in a knot.
Through the qualities of meditating in that way,
Mental obscurations are purified and the dharmakaya is attained."
-Ra Lotsawa, All-pervading Melodious Drumbeats
-Paraphrase of Khensur Rinpoche Lobsang Tsephel citing the Guhyasamaja Tantra
"All memories and thoughts are the union of emptiness and knowing, the Mind.
Without attachment, self-liberating, like a snake in a knot.
Through the qualities of meditating in that way,
Mental obscurations are purified and the dharmakaya is attained."
-Ra Lotsawa, All-pervading Melodious Drumbeats
Re: Third precept clarification
Obviously it is the source of possibly disharmony, to say the least. As for sexual misconduct, with a wife of someone else, yes, I think so, according to AN 10.176.Nighthawk wrote:The act of making out with someone's wife or girlfriend. Is that also sexual misconduct?
Sexual misconduct in Pali is kāmesumicchācāra, cāra - doing, micchā - wrong, kāma - which refers to either sensual pleasure in any of the 6 senses, or sensual desire. So if one is acting out of sensual desire, which I can't see how one isn't if they are kissing, with someone who is designated as an object of kāmesumicchācāra, then tathārūpāsu cārittaṃ āpajjitā hoti - he falls into such a manner of acting.
Those who are objects of kāmesumicchācāra are a woman protected by mother, father, both parents, brother, sister, relatives, clan, (all presumably implying that she is young in age) or the same nature (presumably meaning incest). Also, one who has a husband, is liable to punishment, or on whom a garland has been placed (engaged).
I am not sure that they had the notion of "girlfriend" in the Buddha's time. Even until earlier in the 20th century, if one was seeing someone frequently, as one sees a girlfriend, it would be presumed to be some form of courtship, and one would be expected to remain celibate until marriage. So obviously social convention changes, and it seems the Buddha was simply proscribing rules against acting in a way which most in society then, and still today, would have considered sexual misconduct. But today, I do not think people expect you to kiss another's girlfriend, and I would presume it is still against social convention - but I have no idea, maybe you live in California or something.
This may be some kind of interpolation of "antamaso mālāguḷaparikkhittāpi," even one on whom garlands have been hung.I recall reading somewhere that even giving a flower to someone else's lover is sexual misconduct. I forgot where I read that though.
Re: Third precept clarification
I suppose it would depend on the circumstances, but if your intention is to win them over it would be and also if you're doing it secretly from either your spouse or theirs.Konchog1 wrote:I recall reading somewhere that even giving a flower to someone else's lover is sexual misconduct. I forgot where I read that though.
Re: Third precept clarification
Oh! That's right! It was the other way around, sorry. It was 'It's sexual misconduct to flirt with someone that another has merely given flowers too'.Ben Yuan wrote:This may be some kind of interpolation of "antamaso mālāguḷaparikkhittāpi," even one on whom garlands have been hung.
In other words, the person you flirt with don't have to be in a relationship. If someone else is serious about them and you know this, it is sexual misconduct.
Equanimity is the ground. Love is the moisture. Compassion is the seed. Bodhicitta is the result.
-Paraphrase of Khensur Rinpoche Lobsang Tsephel citing the Guhyasamaja Tantra
"All memories and thoughts are the union of emptiness and knowing, the Mind.
Without attachment, self-liberating, like a snake in a knot.
Through the qualities of meditating in that way,
Mental obscurations are purified and the dharmakaya is attained."
-Ra Lotsawa, All-pervading Melodious Drumbeats
-Paraphrase of Khensur Rinpoche Lobsang Tsephel citing the Guhyasamaja Tantra
"All memories and thoughts are the union of emptiness and knowing, the Mind.
Without attachment, self-liberating, like a snake in a knot.
Through the qualities of meditating in that way,
Mental obscurations are purified and the dharmakaya is attained."
-Ra Lotsawa, All-pervading Melodious Drumbeats
Re: Third precept clarification
If the intention to give the flower is to get into the person's pants then I can see why. Did you read this in a sutra or from a teacher?Konchog1 wrote:I recall reading somewhere that even giving a flower to someone else's lover is sexual misconduct. I forgot where I read that though.
Re: Third precept clarification
lol no, I don't live in California and this is not something I'm thinking of doing. Just wanted to know how far the precept of sexual misconduct can go.Ben Yuan wrote:- but I have no idea, maybe you live in California or something.Nighthawk wrote:The act of making out with someone's wife or girlfriend. Is that also sexual misconduct?
Re: Third precept clarification
Read my above post. Also, I don't remember. It might have been accesstoinsight.orgNighthawk wrote:If the intention to give the flower is to get into the person's pants then I can see why. Did you read this in a sutra or from a teacher?Konchog1 wrote:I recall reading somewhere that even giving a flower to someone else's lover is sexual misconduct. I forgot where I read that though.
Equanimity is the ground. Love is the moisture. Compassion is the seed. Bodhicitta is the result.
-Paraphrase of Khensur Rinpoche Lobsang Tsephel citing the Guhyasamaja Tantra
"All memories and thoughts are the union of emptiness and knowing, the Mind.
Without attachment, self-liberating, like a snake in a knot.
Through the qualities of meditating in that way,
Mental obscurations are purified and the dharmakaya is attained."
-Ra Lotsawa, All-pervading Melodious Drumbeats
-Paraphrase of Khensur Rinpoche Lobsang Tsephel citing the Guhyasamaja Tantra
"All memories and thoughts are the union of emptiness and knowing, the Mind.
Without attachment, self-liberating, like a snake in a knot.
Through the qualities of meditating in that way,
Mental obscurations are purified and the dharmakaya is attained."
-Ra Lotsawa, All-pervading Melodious Drumbeats