Enlightenment

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths. What can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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Cittasanto
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Re: Enlightenment

Postby Cittasanto » Wed Feb 15, 2012 1:09 am



He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

greggorious
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Re: Enlightenment

Postby greggorious » Wed Feb 15, 2012 1:17 am

Soto Zen, the one concerned with Meditation and practically nothing else. So much as I love it, particularly the pantheistic, Tao elements, I find the Soto way of meditating far too difficult. Vipassana has always resonated with me more deeply.
"The original heart/mind shines like pure, clear water with the sweetest taste. But if the heart is pure, is our practice over? No, we must not cling even to this purity. We must go beyond all duality, all concepts, all bad, all good, all pure, all impure. We must go beyond self and nonself, beyond birth and death. When we see with the eye of wisdom, we know that the true Buddha is timeless, unborn, unrelated to any body, any history, any image. Buddha is the ground of all being, the realization of the truth of the unmoving mind.” Ajahn Chah

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ground
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Re: Enlightenment

Postby ground » Wed Feb 15, 2012 4:37 am


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Cittasanto
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Re: Enlightenment

Postby Cittasanto » Wed Feb 15, 2012 8:57 am



He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

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ground
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Re: Enlightenment

Postby ground » Wed Feb 15, 2012 7:37 pm


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Cittasanto
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Re: Enlightenment

Postby Cittasanto » Wed Feb 15, 2012 10:43 pm



He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

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Dan74
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Re: Enlightenment

Postby Dan74 » Wed Feb 15, 2012 10:51 pm

_/|\_

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Cittasanto
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Re: Enlightenment

Postby Cittasanto » Thu Feb 16, 2012 12:02 am



He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

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Dan74
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Re: Enlightenment

Postby Dan74 » Thu Feb 16, 2012 1:01 am

Yes it does. There may be a difference in interpretation though - as was often the case, Buddhism took existing terms and cultural references and adapted them for the purpose of teaching the Dharma.

So in Taoism non-action may mean according with the Tao, a natural order of things as understood in Taoism, while in Chan/Zen it may mean skillful compassionate functioning of the Original Mind, or the one who knows as the Thai Forest people say.

Ven Huifeng would have a clearer view of this difference of course but since the purpose of Tao and Buddhism are probably different, non-action will be different too.
_/|\_

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Cittasanto
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Re: Enlightenment

Postby Cittasanto » Thu Feb 16, 2012 1:15 am



He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

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Dan74
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Re: Enlightenment

Postby Dan74 » Thu Feb 16, 2012 1:41 am

I shared what I knew about wu wei, didn't realize it came across as arguing. I am sorry.
_/|\_

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Cittasanto
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Re: Enlightenment

Postby Cittasanto » Thu Feb 16, 2012 1:47 am



He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

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Dan74
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Re: Enlightenment

Postby Dan74 » Thu Feb 16, 2012 1:54 am

Oh. That "yes, it is." meant "I agree" ie yes, it is used in Zen as you said.

I've got to work on my online communication skills, I think!
_/|\_

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ground
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Re: Enlightenment

Postby ground » Thu Feb 16, 2012 4:52 am


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Cittasanto
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Re: Enlightenment

Postby Cittasanto » Thu Feb 16, 2012 8:52 am



He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

User avatar
Cittasanto
Posts: 6524
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 10:31 pm
Location: Ellan Vannin
Contact:

Re: Enlightenment

Postby Cittasanto » Thu Feb 16, 2012 8:54 am



He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.


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