YOU CANNOT POST. OUR WEB HOSTING COMPANY DECIDED TO MOVE THE SERVER TO ANOTHER LOCATION. IN THE MEANTIME, YOU CAN VIEW THIS VERSION WHICH DOES NOT ALLOW POSTING AND WILL NOT SAVE ANYTHING YOU DO ONCE THE OTHER SERVER GOES ONLINE.

Why is Nirvana permanent? - Dhamma Wheel

Why is Nirvana permanent?

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
steve19800
Posts: 226
Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2011 1:20 am

Why is Nirvana permanent?

Postby steve19800 » Sun Feb 12, 2012 11:19 pm

Hello,

I'd like to ask this question to dhammawheel members including lay people and monks.
If Nirvana is not permanent then what is the point of attaining it? Since everything is impermanent, why Nirvana is the exception? Is there anything in the Sutta Buddha stated Nirvana as permanent and the reason it is free from impermanence? If the existence (no other word to describe) of Nirvana is permanent, what kind of existence, i.e. cessation of suffering and permanent happiness is that? Thank you :)

User avatar
tiltbillings
Posts: 23012
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am

Re: Why is Nirvana permanent?

Postby tiltbillings » Sun Feb 12, 2012 11:20 pm


User avatar
Goofaholix
Posts: 2928
Joined: Sun Nov 15, 2009 3:49 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: Why is Nirvana permanent?

Postby Goofaholix » Sun Feb 12, 2012 11:58 pm


User avatar
Alobha
Posts: 566
Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2011 8:27 pm
Location: Germany

Re: Why is Nirvana permanent?

Postby Alobha » Mon Feb 13, 2012 1:30 am


User avatar
tiltbillings
Posts: 23012
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am

Re: Why is Nirvana permanent?

Postby tiltbillings » Mon Feb 13, 2012 1:55 am


User avatar
ground
Posts: 2591
Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2009 6:01 am

Re: Why is Nirvana permanent?

Postby ground » Mon Feb 13, 2012 2:11 am

Last edited by ground on Mon Feb 13, 2012 2:12 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
retrofuturist
Site Admin
Posts: 17855
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:52 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: Why is Nirvana permanent?

Postby retrofuturist » Mon Feb 13, 2012 2:11 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

Reductor
Posts: 1381
Joined: Sat Sep 12, 2009 6:52 am
Location: Alberta, Canada

Re: Why is Nirvana permanent?

Postby Reductor » Mon Feb 13, 2012 5:49 am

Nibbana is the absence of suffering.

Suffering is conditioned by craving, which is conditioned by ignorance. When knowledge arises craving ceases and so does suffering. That is, when the supports for suffering cease, suffering goes 'out', or Nibbanas, like a fire.

Why does this mean that nibbana is permenant? Because even in the end of an arahants life there is no suffering, let alone during life. There are no supports for a resurgance of suffering. Even at the end they have no cravimg for their own personhood, no craving for identity. Even such a deep rooted thirst (tanha) like conceit has been quenched by knowledge (vijja) so how could suffering arise even on that account?

Also, I most like those posts by Goof and TMingyur. They are worth thinking on for a long while, it seems to me.

santa100
Posts: 2673
Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2011 10:55 pm

Re: Why is Nirvana permanent?

Postby santa100 » Mon Feb 13, 2012 2:22 pm

Say the scope of Nibbana's permanence was narrowed down to just "the permanent end of all suffering", then this alone would be something totally worth pursuing..

User avatar
Prasadachitta
Posts: 974
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2009 6:52 am
Location: San Francisco (The Mission) Ca USA
Contact:

Re: Why is Nirvana permanent?

Postby Prasadachitta » Tue Feb 14, 2012 1:16 am

My take....

Nibanna (as Tilt says) is the absence of what is called greed, hatred, and delusion. It is the result of a process of development where these negative qualities are attenuated until there is enough clarity to see the very principle which fuels there continued occurrence. With awareness of this principle all things can be fed and all things can be starved. A mind which is perfectly lucid to this principle is not in any way separate from it. The principle is the Dhamma and it is permanently true.

Metta

Prasadachitta
"Beautifully taught is the Lord's Dhamma, immediately apparent, timeless, of the nature of a personal invitation, progressive, to be attained by the wise, each for himself." Anguttara Nikaya V.332

User avatar
kirk5a
Posts: 1959
Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2010 1:51 pm

Re: Why is Nirvana permanent?

Postby kirk5a » Tue Feb 14, 2012 3:30 am

"When one thing is practiced & pursued, ignorance is abandoned, clear knowing arises, the conceit 'I am' is abandoned, latent tendencies are uprooted, fetters are abandoned. Which one thing? Mindfulness immersed in the body." -AN 1.230

User avatar
Jason
Posts: 474
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2009 1:09 am
Location: Earth
Contact:

Re: Why is Nirvana permanent?

Postby Jason » Wed Feb 15, 2012 3:35 am

"Sabbe dhamma nalam abhinivesaya" ().

(Buddhist-related blog)
(non-Buddhist related blog)

User avatar
reflection
Posts: 1116
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2011 9:27 pm

Re: Why is Nirvana permanent?

Postby reflection » Wed Feb 15, 2012 12:50 pm

Because after nirvana there is no craving and thus no rebirth.

:anjali:
Reflection

User avatar
Cittasanto
Posts: 6524
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 10:31 pm
Location: Ellan Vannin
Contact:

Re: Why is Nirvana permanent?

Postby Cittasanto » Wed Feb 15, 2012 1:08 pm



He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

steve19800
Posts: 226
Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2011 1:20 am

Re: Why is Nirvana permanent?

Postby steve19800 » Thu Feb 16, 2012 1:20 am

My worldly understanding of Nirvana is like this, AFAIK Buddha has three forms i.e. Nirmanakaya (body of transformation), Sambhogakaya (body of bliss) and Dharmakaya (body of essence also called truth body, unmanifested mode).
I believe after Sakyamuni Buddha attained Nirvana, he uses his Nirmanakaya body for us to perceive through our physical eye. Because everything conditioned is impermanent, Buddha's human body also has to cease but this change does not mean change to suffering since it's free of greed, hatred and ignorance.
Sakyamuni Buddha may manifest in his unmanifested form at the moment (in this kalpa) and by using the nature of impermanence he may manifest to different form as he wish.

This is just my understanding :)

steve19800
Posts: 226
Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2011 1:20 am

Re: Why is Nirvana permanent?

Postby steve19800 » Thu Feb 16, 2012 1:45 am



Return to “General Theravāda discussion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot], Kim OHara and 29 guests

Google Saffron, Theravada Search Engine