Green Tara 28 Jun webcast

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Green Tara 28 Jun webcast

Postby Snovid » Sat Jun 29, 2013 2:38 pm

I wonder whether the language in which I recite the mantra is important

I am a Pole
ChNN teaches Tibetan pronunciation Green Tara Mantra
and the text is Sanskrit.

I have a problem because I do not know how to pronounce the mantra
I'd like to recite in Sanskrit
I do not know if I can if ChNN teaches this mantra in Tibetan language

Secondly, I do not have phonetic version sanskrit pronunciation

Pleas help
I am from Poland I use google translator I do not know English
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Re: Green Tara 28 Jun webcast

Postby Sönam » Sat Jun 29, 2013 3:18 pm

Snowid wrote:I wonder whether the language in which I recite the mantra is important

I am a Pole
ChNN teaches Tibetan pronunciation Green Tara Mantra
and the text is Sanskrit.

I have a problem because I do not know how to pronounce the mantra
I'd like to recite in Sanskrit
I do not know if I can if ChNN teaches this mantra in Tibetan language

Secondly, I do not have phonetic version sanskrit pronunciation

Pleas help


It is important to recite the mantra exactely like you received it, it's a transmission. Even if the master transmitted it with an error, you should reproduce the error, that's how it works. In a couple of day you should be able to listen again to the webcast, so you can have the perfect pronunciation. ChNN attaches a great importance in the correct pronunciation of what is transmitted.

Sönam
By understanding everything you perceive from the perspective of the view, you are freed from the constraints of philosophical beliefs.
By understanding that any and all mental activity is meditation, you are freed from arbitrary divisions between formal sessions and postmeditation activity.
- Longchen Rabjam -
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Re: Green Tara 28 Jun webcast

Postby Dronma » Sat Jun 29, 2013 5:46 pm

Sönam wrote:It is important to recite the mantra exactely like you received it, it's a transmission. Even if the master transmitted it with an error, you should reproduce the error, that's how it works. In a couple of day you should be able to listen again to the webcast, so you can have the perfect pronunciation. ChNN attaches a great importance in the correct pronunciation of what is transmitted.

Sönam


Generally I agree with Sönam, apart of one point: Rinpoche NEVER transmits with error. It is us who have certain lack of precise knowledge and great lack of awareness for understanding correctly the transmissions!
"My view is as vast as the sky, but my actions are finer than flour"
~ Padmasambhava ~
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Re: Green Tara 28 Jun webcast

Postby Sönam » Sat Jun 29, 2013 7:36 pm

Dronma wrote:
Sönam wrote:It is important to recite the mantra exactely like you received it, it's a transmission. Even if the master transmitted it with an error, you should reproduce the error, that's how it works. In a couple of day you should be able to listen again to the webcast, so you can have the perfect pronunciation. ChNN attaches a great importance in the correct pronunciation of what is transmitted.

Sönam


Generally I agree with Sönam, apart of one point: Rinpoche NEVER transmits with error. It is us who have certain lack of precise knowledge and great lack of awareness for understanding correctly the transmissions!


Of course I was not speaking of Rinpoche ... but only reproducing what he once himself said :tongue:
By understanding everything you perceive from the perspective of the view, you are freed from the constraints of philosophical beliefs.
By understanding that any and all mental activity is meditation, you are freed from arbitrary divisions between formal sessions and postmeditation activity.
- Longchen Rabjam -
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Re: Green Tara 28 Jun webcast

Postby Dronma » Sun Jun 30, 2013 8:38 pm

Probably you are talking about the paradigm which Rinpoche is giving often about Sakya Pandita and the hermit who was chanting the mantra of Vajrakilaya in a strange way as "...chili chilaya", instead of "...kili kilaya".

http://books.google.gr/books?id=_o3QDa5 ... ya&f=false

But again, this paradigm does not mean that the hermit was wrong. He was just using his local accent. Since he was using that accent of the mantra for all his life, he had the realization through this particular sound.

There are many examples of the different Tibetan pronunciations.
Like the mantra "Kyen Kyenno", which in some places of Tibet is pronounced as "Chen Chenno". But it still has the same meaning.
Like the Sanskrit "Vajra", which the Tibetans pronounce it as "Benza".
"Hum", which they pronounce it as "Hung".
Like "HRI", which in Eastern Tibet they pronounce it with a hissing sound and many Westerners get confused that it sounds like "SHRI". But SHRI is another syllable with totally different meaning and different sound.
HRI is the seed syllable of the Padma family of the West.
While SHRI has the meanings of: "glory, magnificence, splendid, grand, glorious, signifies worthy master", and it is used as an adjective.


Sönam wrote:Even if the master transmitted it with an error, you should reproduce the error, that's how it works.

I am sorry, but this is a totally wrong notion according to my understanding. If someone considers that his/her Dzogchen Master is transmitting by making errors, then there is no point to trust 100% this Master for attaining perfect realization.
This approach is a huge paradox.
"My view is as vast as the sky, but my actions are finer than flour"
~ Padmasambhava ~
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Re: Green Tara 28 Jun webcast

Postby Adamantine » Sun Jun 30, 2013 8:52 pm

Dronma wrote:
Sönam wrote:Even if the master transmitted it with an error, you should reproduce the error, that's how it works.

I am sorry, but this is a totally wrong notion according to my understanding. If someone considers that his/her Dzogchen Master is transmitting by making errors, then there is no point to trust 100% this Master for attaining perfect realization.
This approach is a huge paradox.


I think you may be missing some subtlety here:
for instance, if ChNN was ill, which we know he was on and off for different
periods then we know he is displaying relative aspects of physical
incarnation with all it's defects. A number of these relative physical
aspects could cause anyone to pronounce something
in a way other than what the tradition or lineage
would hold to as correct: whether it is a hiccup, a stroke or otherwise.

This doesn't lessen the realization of the teacher or imply
they are not acting in full awareness. It could still be relatively
labeled an "error " while at the same time never losing
total faith in the perfection of your Dzogchen master, -even seeing
the "error" as an expression of their perfection. So I believe Sonam meant it in
this way, as he clarified already.
Contentment is the ultimate wealth;
Detachment is the final happiness. ~Sri Saraha
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Re: Green Tara 28 Jun webcast

Postby Dronma » Sun Jun 30, 2013 9:03 pm

It is exactly what I already said, Adamantine, but in different words.
However, the different local accents are not considered as errors. They are just different local accents. Not errors!

PS. And I don't think that I have to reproduce like parrot even the hiccup of my teacher.... :tongue:
"My view is as vast as the sky, but my actions are finer than flour"
~ Padmasambhava ~
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Re: Green Tara 28 Jun webcast

Postby Sönam » Sun Jun 30, 2013 9:23 pm

Dronma wrote:Probably you are talking about the paradigm which Rinpoche is giving often about Sakya Pandita and the hermit who was chanting the mantra of Vajrakilaya in a strange way as "...chili chilaya", instead of "...kili kilaya".

http://books.google.gr/books?id=_o3QDa5 ... ya&f=false

But again, this paradigm does not mean that the hermit was wrong. He was just using his local accent. Since he was using that accent of the mantra for all his life, he had the realization through this particular sound.

There are many examples of the different Tibetan pronunciations.
Like the mantra "Kyen Kyenno", which in some places of Tibet is pronounced as "Chen Chenno". But it still has the same meaning.
Like the Sanskrit "Vajra", which the Tibetans pronounce it as "Benza".
"Hum", which they pronounce it as "Hung".
Like "HRI", which in Eastern Tibet they pronounce it with a hissing sound and many Westerners get confused that it sounds like "SHRI". But SHRI is another syllable with totally different meaning and different sound.
HRI is the seed syllable of the Padma family of the West.
While SHRI has the meanings of: "glory, magnificence, splendid, grand, glorious, signifies worthy master", and it is used as an adjective.


Sönam wrote:Even if the master transmitted it with an error, you should reproduce the error, that's how it works.

I am sorry, but this is a totally wrong notion according to my understanding. If someone considers that his/her Dzogchen Master is transmitting by making errors, then there is no point to trust 100% this Master for attaining perfect realization.
This approach is a huge paradox.


Ok Dronma, forget error ... but I was not only refering to the paradigm of the hermit and Sakya Pandita, as far as I remember, it's precisely the words used by Rinpoché to underline that point. But maybe he did'nt see the things as precisely as you did.

love
Sönam
By understanding everything you perceive from the perspective of the view, you are freed from the constraints of philosophical beliefs.
By understanding that any and all mental activity is meditation, you are freed from arbitrary divisions between formal sessions and postmeditation activity.
- Longchen Rabjam -
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Re: Green Tara 28 Jun webcast

Postby Dronma » Sun Jun 30, 2013 9:40 pm

Sönam wrote:Ok Dronma, forget error ... but I was not only refering to the paradigm of the hermit and Sakya Pandita, as far as I remember, it's precisely the words used by Rinpoché to underline that point. But maybe he did'nt see the things as precisely as you did.

love
Sönam


Thank you, Sönam. :smile:
I never claim more clarity than my Master!!! How could I...???
However, I have noticed again and again through all these years I am participating in the circles of Tibetan Buddhism that different people we perceive differently the sayings of the same teacher. So, I think it is good all the voices to be heard.
"My view is as vast as the sky, but my actions are finer than flour"
~ Padmasambhava ~
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Re: Green Tara 28 Jun webcast

Postby pawel » Sun Aug 04, 2013 1:42 pm

You make valid points regarding mantras, but you're missing the OP point entirely.

What he's asking is the prayer to 21 Taras, because there's no other Tara mantra for which Rinpoche gives lung in Tibetan and tells us to recite in Sanskrit.

Why it is so derives from one of Rinpoche's dreams regarding this prayer and Tara's practice. If you want the details of pronunciation, and the details of the dream and how to actually practice the prayer according to Rinpoche's instruction, you need to obtain booklet and a CD with the teachings on the prayer to 21 Taras.

Best wishes
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