Dzongsar Khyentse on ngondro

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Re: Dzongsar Khyentse on ngondro

Postby MalaBeads » Fri Jun 14, 2013 3:55 am

Gyaltsen Tashi wrote:I think even the gurus are helpless in this torrent of suffering. Pretty soon they will all pass away, and we will be left to our own devices.

MalaBeads wrote:
Gyaltsen Tashi wrote: I don't know. I used to take comfort lovey-dovey compassion. But now no guru is badass enough to inspire me. I'm going through the motions. Maybe I should leave Buddhism for good.

I'm in a war zone. I'm angry. I used to have psychosis. I live under a dictatorship. I'm so tired. I just want to go home....

Regards,
Gyaltsen Tashi


I am sorry to hear this, GT.

I don't have anything to offer you except maybe this. In English we have saying: home is where the heart is. Even the Buddha said: hatred will never cease by hatred but only through love. In my own life, it has taken many, many years to get to a place where I could even remotely imagine the possibility of actual love. I have seen the faces of stone cold hatred and it is an awful sight.

I hope for you to see and understand the difference between what you are calling lovey-dovey compassion and actual love. Love is very healing but it is often quite difficult to see. Its something that is in very short supply here in the west but we are working on it. :smile:

All the best to you.

:namaste:


I agree with you, GT. Even the gurus can be overwhelmed by all the suffering in this world, if they contemplate it for even a few seconds. Lucky for all of us though, impermanence can also be a positive event. This being overwhelmed, this death of our gurus, is also impermanent. As we say, impermanence cuts both ways.

"Yet in attachment, blossoms fall. In aversion, weeds spread" - Dogen Zenji


All the best to you.
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Re: Dzongsar Khyentse on ngondro

Postby smcj » Fri Jun 14, 2013 5:13 am

I'm in a war zone. I'm angry. I used to have psychosis. I live under a dictatorship. I'm so tired. I just want to go home....

Thanks GT. Sometimes I need to be reminded that suffering is more than just existential/psychological discontent.

Where's home?
A human being has his limits. And thus, in every conceivable way, with every possible means, he tries to make the teaching enter into his own limits. ChNN
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Re: Dzongsar Khyentse on ngondro

Postby Gyaltsen Tashi » Fri Jun 14, 2013 6:29 am

smcj wrote:
I'm in a war zone. I'm angry. I used to have psychosis. I live under a dictatorship. I'm so tired. I just want to go home....

Thanks GT. Sometimes I need to be reminded that suffering is more than just existential/psychological discontent.

Where's home?


I create my own misery, and I don't know how to stop.

Regards,
Gyaltsen Tashi
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Re: Dzongsar Khyentse on ngondro

Postby muni » Fri Jun 14, 2013 10:40 am

Gyaltsen Tashi wrote:I create my own misery, and I don't know how to stop.

Regards,
Gyaltsen Tashi


Wow, This is part of the Four Noble Truths! Most beings don't know this! :bow:


A Kagyu teaching told that not knowing to be suffering is suffering itself. When we know it, we throw a light on it, even we don't see that light since we are caught by minds' habits.
We all think to be the struggling itselves which is suffering and not the always present peaceful nature in which this struggling is released.
On this youtube children are singing a song which obviously was made by enslaved people in Africa. looks like just how we are enslaved by our mistaken self. (Okay take the lord and the angels as our caring nature or whatever translation helps for you)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=awSdp8IODm0

We better don't associate our being with anything, but trust guidance by Awaken Nature (Awaken Spiritual Friend-Master), who is showing we are the peaceful buddha nature itself.
Oh boy, I already know this post makes no sense, but still, maybe it is my simple prayer.

All the best. :namaste:
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Re: Dzongsar Khyentse on ngondro

Postby Gyaltsen Tashi » Sat Jun 15, 2013 12:41 pm

muni wrote:
Gyaltsen Tashi wrote:I create my own misery, and I don't know how to stop.

Regards,
Gyaltsen Tashi


Wow, This is part of the Four Noble Truths! Most beings don't know this! :bow:


A Kagyu teaching told that not knowing to be suffering is suffering itself. When we know it, we throw a light on it, even we don't see that light since we are caught by minds' habits.
We all think to be the struggling itselves which is suffering and not the always present peaceful nature in which this struggling is released.
On this youtube children are singing a song which obviously was made by enslaved people in Africa. looks like just how we are enslaved by our mistaken self. (Okay take the lord and the angels as our caring nature or whatever translation helps for you)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=awSdp8IODm0

We better don't associate our being with anything, but trust guidance by Awaken Nature (Awaken Spiritual Friend-Master), who is showing we are the peaceful buddha nature itself.
Oh boy, I already know this post makes no sense, but still, maybe it is my simple prayer.

All the best. :namaste:


I mean really. But thanks. :namaste:
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Re: Dzongsar Khyentse on ngondro

Postby kirtu » Sat Jun 15, 2013 1:08 pm

Gyaltsen Tashi wrote:I think even the gurus are helpless in this torrent of suffering.


The gurus are not helpless in their reactions to the torrent of suffering. And neither are we.

Kirt
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"Only you can make your mind beautiful."
HH Chetsang Rinpoche
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Re: Dzongsar Khyentse on ngondro

Postby Gyaltsen Tashi » Sat Jun 15, 2013 1:30 pm

kirtu wrote:
Gyaltsen Tashi wrote:I think even the gurus are helpless in this torrent of suffering.


The gurus are not helpless in their reactions to the torrent of suffering. And neither are we.

Kirt


Right. It's just something I say to myself when I'm feeling down or stuck in my own misery.

Regards,
Gyaltsen Tashi
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Re: Dzongsar Khyentse on ngondro

Postby muni » Mon Jun 17, 2013 8:42 am

Gyaltsen Tashi wrote:
I mean really. :namaste:


Oh yes. You said: "I create my own misery." http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7a8AI-X4BM

:namaste:

Oops, back to topic.
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Re: Dzongsar Khyentse on ngondro

Postby Gyaltsen Tashi » Tue Jun 18, 2013 8:42 am

muni wrote:
Gyaltsen Tashi wrote:
I mean really. :namaste:


Oh yes. You said: "I create my own misery." http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7a8AI-X4BM

:namaste:

Oops, back to topic.


I don't know. After years of listening and reading, of course I can parrot some of the teachings. But right now, I think I'll still give people shit ala Eminem, instead of regretting that I let some random joker tramp on my personhood. But then there's no "I", is there? As I said, I can be a parrot....
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Re: Dzongsar Khyentse on ngondro

Postby muni » Tue Jun 18, 2013 9:31 am

Gyaltsen Tashi wrote:I don't know. After years of listening and reading, of course I can parrot some of the teachings. But right now, I think I'll still give people shit ala Eminem, instead of regretting that I let some random joker tramp on my personhood. But then there's no "I", is there? As I said, I can be a parrot....


I am also parrotting expressions which are all and all already said. What can there be add other than my arrogance which binds "me"?

Years? I cannot count the lifes anymore! We should have to open a tread in which we prove who is now the worst practicioner. :smile:

:namaste:
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Re: Dzongsar Khyentse on ngondro

Postby dzogchungpa » Tue Jun 18, 2013 4:41 pm

From "Not for Happiness: A Guide to the So-Called Preliminary Practices":
The eighth samaya prohibits you from mistreating your body, which is, in essence, the five buddha families; therefore to be contemptuous of your body and treat it badly is to break samaya. I should also add that those who consider themselves worthless, useless beings not fit to take up even the tiniest of spaces in the world are also breaking this samaya.
ཨོཾ་ཏཱ་རེ་ཏུཏྟ་རེ་ཏུ་རེ་སྭཱཧཱ༔
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Re: Dzongsar Khyentse on ngondro

Postby muni » Tue Jun 18, 2013 7:51 pm

Back to ngondro and

“NEVER GIVE UP
No matter what is going on
Never give up
Develop the heart
Too much energy in your country
Is spent developing the mind
Instead of the heart
Be compassionate
Not just to your friends
But to everyone
Be compassionate
Work for peace
In your heart and in the world
Work for peace
And I say again
Never give up
No matter what is going on around you
Never give up”
H H Dalai Lama
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Re: Dzongsar Khyentse on ngondro

Postby Gyaltsen Tashi » Fri Jun 21, 2013 6:19 am

I can't even bear to read my own shit.
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Re: Dzongsar Khyentse on ngondro

Postby oldbob » Sun Jun 23, 2013 5:16 am

Gyaltsen Tashi wrote:I can't even bear to read my own shit.


Well stop writing for a while if you don't like what you read.

I know the feeling but maybe words are ok in their own dimension. Just don't have big expectations.

--- and some words are pretty helpful ---

Especially the well meaning words of the lineage holders like DKR. Thank you OP. :bow: :twothumbsup:

But maybe also not so necessary - like painting flowers or sex with your cloths on :smile:

So when your mind obsesses and goes round and round without stopping, shout "PHET" (in a place where you will not disturb anyone) and observe the space in your thoughts, after.

Or have a warm fuzzy - do something that has made you feel good before. This can be a very small thing. Just call it "progress" or "getting success". Have a bubble bath - make some pop corn - put some popcorn in your bubble bath????? The point is to be creative and create a gap and reverse the downwards spiral.

Of course tooooooo much chocolate, or ice cream, or wine, etc. is not a good thing. And a warm fuzzy can just be stopping from banging your head against the wall (figuratively speaking), or your partner, or relative, or boss, for a while. The point is to make a gap in the spiral and from within that gap create the capacity to take off in a different direction.

Or saying something truthfully nice to someone who is TOTALLY nasty or impossible. This really freaks them out - creates a gap. Like, "wow what a nice Kalashnikov you have Mr. Terrorist - you must have polished that for hours!" - You have then entered their dimension AND given them a warm fuzzy that MIGHT allow them to see a gap and keep from doing another bad thing to someone on their downward spiral.

Can you say something that gets the next person you talk to to laugh? I'll settle for mild amusement. Can you get a laugh out of the next stranger you meet? If you get someone to smile you are smiling too.

If all else fails, remind yourself that whatever shit storm / fubar you are in, it will pass and later you will laugh at yourself and all the trouble you have caused yourself and others.

Maybe, it is like that.

Now where did I hide that chocolate? :smile:
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Re: Dzongsar Khyentse on ngondro

Postby MalaBeads » Sun Jun 23, 2013 8:45 pm

.....i think it's raining inside my house.....

:heart:
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Re: Dzongsar Khyentse on ngondro

Postby smcj » Mon Jun 24, 2013 4:25 am

muni wrote:Back to ngondro and

“NEVER GIVE UP
No matter what is going on
Never give up
Develop the heart
Too much energy in your country
Is spent developing the mind
Instead of the heart
Be compassionate
Not just to your friends
But to everyone
Be compassionate
Work for peace
In your heart and in the world
Work for peace
And I say again
Never give up
No matter what is going on around you
Never give up”
H H Dalai Lama

I have nothing but the highest regard and the deepest respect for HHDL. However in reading that quote with the "Never Give Up" refrain, I get this real "Galaxy Quest" feeling from it. Not his fault, just my own cultural pollution.
A human being has his limits. And thus, in every conceivable way, with every possible means, he tries to make the teaching enter into his own limits. ChNN
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Re: Dzongsar Khyentse on ngondro

Postby muni » Mon Jun 24, 2013 9:45 am

smcj wrote:
muni wrote:Back to ngondro and

“NEVER GIVE UP
No matter what is going on
Never give up
Develop the heart
Too much energy in your country
Is spent developing the mind
Instead of the heart
Be compassionate
Not just to your friends
But to everyone
Be compassionate
Work for peace
In your heart and in the world
Work for peace
And I say again
Never give up
No matter what is going on around you
Never give up”
H H Dalai Lama

I have nothing but the highest regard and the deepest respect for HHDL. However in reading that quote with the "Never Give Up" refrain, I get this real "Galaxy Quest" feeling from it. Not his fault, just my own cultural pollution.


But I have no Bushmen example of this! I like Bushmen. :smile:
Pollution. My, I, me, mine indeed. Ngondro.
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Re: Dzongsar Khyentse on ngondro

Postby muni » Mon Jun 24, 2013 4:45 pm

Never give up, never.......

Surrender, can as well mean the same as ngondro. :smile:
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Re: Dzongsar Khyentse on ngondro

Postby Simon E. » Mon Jun 24, 2013 6:20 pm

dzogchungpa wrote:Some more interesting book recommendations from DJKR:
And then to develop a critical mind, books such as 'The End of Faith' by Sam Harris, 'Feet of Clay' by Anthony Storr. 'Feet of Clay' may be good to read just before the Guru Yoga.


I have just come across this.
Anthony Storr was a good and compassionate man. I overlapped with him... working at the same hospital towards the end of his career....
He was also a man who spent much of his adult life battling with depression.
This no doubt gave him great empathy with his patients, but perhaps made him less reliable as a guide to potential influences.
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Re: Dzongsar Khyentse on ngondro

Postby MalaBeads » Mon Jun 24, 2013 6:35 pm

Simon E. wrote:
dzogchungpa wrote:Some more interesting book recommendations from DJKR:
And then to develop a critical mind, books such as 'The End of Faith' by Sam Harris, 'Feet of Clay' by Anthony Storr. 'Feet of Clay' may be good to read just before the Guru Yoga.


I have just come across this.
Anthony Storr was a good and compassionate man. I overlapped with him... working at the same hospital towards the end of his career....
He was also a man who spent much of his adult life battling with depression.
This no doubt gave him great empathy with his patients, but perhaps made him less reliable as a guide to potential influences.


Interesting insight as to what might have motivated him to debunk so many cultural icons.

Reaffirms my own bias that all creative work (and I am including practice in this which is always creative in the sense that it must respond to the actual circumstances of ones life and is, hence, unique) is based on the personal. There is no substitue for experience. None.

Even if the "personal" is not what we think it is.

:namaste:
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