More Trungpa talk

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dzogchungpa
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Re: More Trungpa talk

Postby dzogchungpa » Thu Jun 20, 2013 5:44 pm

Through Dzogchen we can really understand what God is and we don’t have to worry if there is a God or not. God always exists as our real nature, the base, for everybody. - Chögyal Namkhai Norbu

greentara
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Re: More Trungpa talk

Postby greentara » Fri Jun 21, 2013 4:49 am

Many of the spiritual entrepreneurs of the day appear to seek the adoration and veneration from their followers without much inclination towards demonstrating behavior or conduct befitting a monk or sage. Although it seems self-evident to most objective observers, it is not always obvious to many disciples and students of yogis, spiritual teachers, and cult leaders that their gurus are simply human beings and therefore limited and sometimes deeply flawed.

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Nilasarasvati
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Location: Trāyastriṃśa. Just kidding. What a cool sanksrit word, huh?

Re: More Trungpa talk

Postby Nilasarasvati » Fri Jun 21, 2013 4:57 am


Simon E.
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Re: More Trungpa talk

Postby Simon E. » Fri Jun 21, 2013 7:56 am

" My heart's in the Highlands
my heart is not here.
My heart's in the Highlands
chasing the deer."

Robert V.C. Burns.

greentara
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Re: More Trungpa talk

Postby greentara » Fri Jun 21, 2013 12:30 pm

'Many people continue to view their guru or their spiritual leader as being infallible even when overwhelming evidence points in the exact opposite direction. To avoid facing the painful reality, some followers interpret the facts of their leaders conduct in creative ways to explain them away somehow. It happens. One has to only read the newspapers and the Internet sites to discover all the information there. Spirituality and selling of wisdom is a huge business.

.
Don’t like to be overly critical of spiritual teachers in any religion or spiritual tradition. Certainly, they bring many benefits to people and parts of humanity. But it seems to me that that many of the so called “gurus” and “spiritual masters” are plainly lacking in anything but the most superficial insight and knowledge.
Many of these self-help and self-proclaimed gurus struggle with serious emotional and psychological issues and need to be constantly on a power trip and thrive only when dominating their students and disciples.

It is no wonder that traditional religious and yogic orthodoxy in India responded so negatively to the attacks of Jiddu Krishnamurti and later Rajneesh (Osho). Despite the serious personal limitations and weaknesses of these two critics of the existing orthodoxy, they were powerful voices in pointing out the hypocrisy of gurus and masters in spiritual traditions who “sell” Universal Truths, and make disciples dependent upon them.

Ironically, both J. Krishnamurthy and Rajneesh (Osho) fell into the same mental and spiritual traps that they accused other teachers of being in. It happens. This is all part of the human condition. Many of so called gurus and teachers and the enlightened ones are struggling to find their place and path in this world. As long as “Enlightenment” is viewed as a commodity that can be sold and bought, there will be sellers and buyers. This is simply how the free market works'

Simon E.
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Re: More Trungpa talk

Postby Simon E. » Fri Jun 21, 2013 12:49 pm

And the connection of all that to a 'More Trungpa Talk ' thread is what...?
" My heart's in the Highlands
my heart is not here.
My heart's in the Highlands
chasing the deer."

Robert V.C. Burns.

greentara
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Re: More Trungpa talk

Postby greentara » Sat Jun 22, 2013 12:18 am

And the connection is.....Many people continue to view their guru or their spiritual leader as being infallible even when overwhelming evidence points in the exact opposite direction. To avoid facing the painful reality, some followers interpret the facts of their leaders conduct in creative ways to explain them away somehow.

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Nilasarasvati
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Location: Trāyastriṃśa. Just kidding. What a cool sanksrit word, huh?

Re: More Trungpa talk

Postby Nilasarasvati » Sat Jun 22, 2013 4:08 am


greentara
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Re: More Trungpa talk

Postby greentara » Sat Jun 22, 2013 4:37 am

'At the end Trungpa Rinpoche passed away when he was quite young. . Few could bear to acknowledge that their beloved and brilliant teacher was dying of terminal alcoholism, caused almost exclusively by cirrhosis of the liver.” In addition to being an alcoholic, ChogyamTrungpa had sexual relationships with his followers, encouraged the use of mind-altering drugs, and was rather abusive.

His successor, Osel Tendzin, was even less savoury. Before he died in 1990, this saint admitted to having sex with over a hundred men and women even though he knew that he had AIDs. A number of these partners contracted the disease themselves.

Many still believe that Chogyam Trungpa and Osel Tendzin were spiritual masters, and use all sorts of mystical rationalizations to defend their adoration. Their blind faith demonstrates one of the dangers of religion: the dissolution of the ego can, if accompanied by the dissolution of the critical intellect, result in abject subjugation to another person’s ego, an ego that may have a hidden and unpalatable agenda.'

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Nilasarasvati
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Re: More Trungpa talk

Postby Nilasarasvati » Sat Jun 22, 2013 5:02 am

AhHhhh okay, you did mean it in reference to Trungpa Rinpoche. So simple! Why didn't you just say so from the start? Here I thought you were trying to be sneaky, then you commented all about Krishnamurti and Osho, and finally you admit, you disapprove.

Thanks for clearing that up.

greentara
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Re: More Trungpa talk

Postby greentara » Sat Jun 22, 2013 6:17 am

Ok you thought I was sneaky.... when really I was hesitant to be overly critical of Trungpa as there are some devotees on this forum who still harbour fond thoughts of him.

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heart
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Re: More Trungpa talk

Postby heart » Sat Jun 22, 2013 8:37 am

"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut

"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)

greentara
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Re: More Trungpa talk

Postby greentara » Sat Jun 22, 2013 9:01 am

heart, I do understand as I thought 'Cutting through spiritual materialism' was a wonderful book. There are some who are very articulate, charismatic and can talk the talk. If the cravings and desires are too strong you cannot live the teaching....so how can you guide others?

Simon E.
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Re: More Trungpa talk

Postby Simon E. » Sat Jun 22, 2013 9:14 am

" My heart's in the Highlands
my heart is not here.
My heart's in the Highlands
chasing the deer."

Robert V.C. Burns.

Simon E.
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Joined: Tue May 15, 2012 11:09 am

Re: More Trungpa talk

Postby Simon E. » Sat Jun 22, 2013 9:19 am

" My heart's in the Highlands
my heart is not here.
My heart's in the Highlands
chasing the deer."

Robert V.C. Burns.

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heart
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Re: More Trungpa talk

Postby heart » Sat Jun 22, 2013 9:21 am

"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut

"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)

MalaBeads
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Re: More Trungpa talk

Postby MalaBeads » Sat Jun 22, 2013 1:13 pm

I am well aware of my idiocy. I am also very aware that you too are an idiot. Therein lies our mutuality.

greentara
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Re: More Trungpa talk

Postby greentara » Sat Jun 22, 2013 2:54 pm

'Many still believe that Chogyam Trungpa and Osel Tendzin were spiritual masters, and use all sorts of mystical rationalizations to defend their adoration. Their blind faith demonstrates one of the dangers of religion: the dissolution of the ego can, if accompanied by the dissolution of the critical intellect, can result in abject subjugation to another person’s ego, an ego that may have a hidden and unpalatable agenda'
Simon E and others if you adore and believe in Trungpa well and good, if you feel you benefit ok... but don't trot out all this passive/aggressive stuff and spare me the clinician speak!
nuff said!

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heart
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Re: More Trungpa talk

Postby heart » Sat Jun 22, 2013 3:06 pm

"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut

"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)

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smcj
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Re: More Trungpa talk

Postby smcj » Sat Jun 22, 2013 4:26 pm

Don't take me too seriously.


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