More Trungpa talk

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smcj
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Re: More Trungpa talk

Postby smcj » Fri Jun 14, 2013 11:36 pm

Ok, I stand corrected.
Don't take me too seriously.

michaelb
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Re: More Trungpa talk

Postby michaelb » Sat Jun 15, 2013 4:34 pm

I've never had much of a connection to CTR but I liked the books of his I've read. I also liked the one I read by his Dharma regent that I read years ago. I can't remember much about it now, though.

Anyway the reason I thought I'd post on this thread was to ask about the tradition that CTR was part of and how that shaped his approach. Was being a student of Khenpo Gangshar significant in CTR's later behaviour, rather than the western students he was teaching? I've had some contact with a few Kagyu lamas that CTR was close to in England and other students of Khenpo Gangshar. None of them act in a crazy/controversial way, as far as I know.

Also, it seems CTR has influenced other lamas active in teaching in the west, maybe, from what I have heard, inspiring them to misbehave. This would be a more serious legacy, I think.

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Re: More Trungpa talk

Postby MalaBeads » Sat Jun 15, 2013 4:43 pm

I am well aware of my idiocy. I am also very aware that you too are an idiot. Therein lies our mutuality.

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Re: More Trungpa talk

Postby michaelb » Sat Jun 15, 2013 4:52 pm

Yes. There are others, too. Maybe their lack of controversy and rather quiet way of doing things meant they had less of an impact on western Dharma culture, but perhaps having such an impact isn't the only thing that counts when judging the value of a lama.

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Re: More Trungpa talk

Postby heart » Sat Jun 15, 2013 4:55 pm

"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut

"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)

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Re: More Trungpa talk

Postby Nilasarasvati » Sat Jun 15, 2013 5:01 pm

What we underestimate in trying to judge or generalize Trungpa's students (even if we narrow it down to those who later became teachers) is that he taught THOUSANDS of people. His communities were so far-reaching and vast. It seems like every few days I read about yet another dedicated practitioner in their 60s or 70s or 80s who learned their first Dharma lessons at CTR's knee------and they are as diverse as you can imagine!

There are those who are low profile and who no doubt remain unknown to most of us...then there are Dharma rockstars like Pema Chodron. There are Lamas who are wingnuts and crazies, obvious Charlatans who may never have even met CTR but claim to be his "Heart sons"...and then there is Jetsunma Tenzin Palmo, who was arguably his first Western student.

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Re: More Trungpa talk

Postby michaelb » Sat Jun 15, 2013 5:40 pm

Last edited by michaelb on Sat Jun 15, 2013 5:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: More Trungpa talk

Postby MalaBeads » Sat Jun 15, 2013 5:49 pm

Just as a side note, it was Lama Chime who first told Pema Chodren to receive teachings from Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche.

Remarkable really.
I am well aware of my idiocy. I am also very aware that you too are an idiot. Therein lies our mutuality.

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Re: More Trungpa talk

Postby dzogchungpa » Sat Jun 15, 2013 7:10 pm

Through Dzogchen we can really understand what God is and we don’t have to worry if there is a God or not. God always exists as our real nature, the base, for everybody. - Chögyal Namkhai Norbu

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Re: More Trungpa talk

Postby michaelb » Sat Jun 15, 2013 8:09 pm

Sure. I'm not doubting that she knew him in England and regularly met him and said "sure, why not?" when he asked if he could be her meditation teacher, but I think saying she was his first western student probably affords the relationship more than it's due. Having said that, I don't know, but I seem to remember her playing it down when asked about it.

She sailed off to India not long after, with CTR's encouragement, and met her lama, Khamtrul Rinpoche.

Anyway, this is all of limited importance.

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Re: More Trungpa talk

Postby Stewart » Sat Jun 15, 2013 8:09 pm

s.

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Re: More Trungpa talk

Postby MalaBeads » Sat Jun 15, 2013 8:27 pm

I am well aware of my idiocy. I am also very aware that you too are an idiot. Therein lies our mutuality.

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smcj
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Re: More Trungpa talk

Postby smcj » Sat Jun 15, 2013 10:56 pm

Shhhh, stop talking about how good a lama Chime R. is. Try to keep it a secret!
Don't take me too seriously.

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Nilasarasvati
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Re: More Trungpa talk

Postby Nilasarasvati » Sat Jun 15, 2013 11:23 pm

Muwahhahaha now I know!
:rolling:

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Re: More Trungpa talk

Postby MalaBeads » Sun Jun 16, 2013 12:58 am

I am well aware of my idiocy. I am also very aware that you too are an idiot. Therein lies our mutuality.

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Re: More Trungpa talk

Postby dzogchungpa » Sun Jun 16, 2013 2:59 am

Through Dzogchen we can really understand what God is and we don’t have to worry if there is a God or not. God always exists as our real nature, the base, for everybody. - Chögyal Namkhai Norbu

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Re: More Trungpa talk

Postby Adamantine » Sun Jun 16, 2013 4:48 am

Contentment is the ultimate wealth;
Detachment is the final happiness. ~Sri Saraha

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Re: More Trungpa talk

Postby michaelb » Sun Jun 16, 2013 9:48 am

I don't disagree with any of this. I just think listing Tenzin Palmo as CTR's first western student is probably a retrospective view more based on her current status than what actually happened at the time. In "Reflections on a Mountain Lake" she says, "So, whenever we met Thrungpa and asked him, "when can we see you again?" he would say, "Next weekend." One weekend he would come to us and the next weekend we would go to him."
Who are these other people she refers to? Forgotten as they didn't go on to be famous realised practitioners? Did they actually meet CTR before Tenzin Palmo?
Sorry, this really isn't important to a discussion on CTR because I think the proposition that Tenzin Palmo became a great practitioner because she met Thrungpa isn't true. She was going to India anyway, with or without CTR's encouragement. Of course, that isn't to say she wasn't necessarily his first western student, but that it isn't that significant if she was.

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Re: More Trungpa talk

Postby Lingpupa » Sun Jun 16, 2013 10:25 am

I just want to second the good things said about Lama Chime Rinpoche. My refuge lama, who gave me ngondro and more almost 40 years ago...
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Re: More Trungpa talk

Postby Adamantine » Sun Jun 16, 2013 10:34 am

Contentment is the ultimate wealth;
Detachment is the final happiness. ~Sri Saraha


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