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Bowing to lay teachers - Dhamma Wheel

Bowing to lay teachers

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
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pilgrim
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Bowing to lay teachers

Postby pilgrim » Mon Jan 30, 2012 12:28 pm

Two parts to this question:
Is it OK to bow ( I mean on your knees, head to floor prostration) to lay Dhamma teachers and is it OK for lay teachers to accept , and therefore encourage, such action?

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Spiny O'Norman
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Re: Bowing to lay teachers

Postby Spiny O'Norman » Mon Jan 30, 2012 1:18 pm


David2
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Re: Bowing to lay teachers

Postby David2 » Mon Jan 30, 2012 1:24 pm


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Cittasanto
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Re: Bowing to lay teachers

Postby Cittasanto » Mon Jan 30, 2012 3:50 pm

Some people don't like it!
some may appreciate it!

Bowing is a beautiful gesture, one of humility, humbling oneself to the dhamma (not the person) is always a positive move, even if one doesn't want to.
I have found forcing myself to bow toward someone I really didn't want to at the time quite lightening, almost a putting down the grudge/burden so to speak.

but some may find it inappropriate, others may not.


He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

santa100
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Re: Bowing to lay teachers

Postby santa100 » Mon Jan 30, 2012 4:04 pm

Closely observe the teacher first. If we bow to someone who doesn't seems to have transcended pride or arrogance, the act could only be a further hindrance to his/her progress, and thus, a big disservice to the teacher..

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Cittasanto
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Re: Bowing to lay teachers

Postby Cittasanto » Mon Jan 30, 2012 4:16 pm

viewtopic.php?f=13&t=11213&start=0&hilit=Arahant
please read this thread.

outward appearance can be deceptive, if one bows it should be for oneself, and if pride... does spring up in the teacher it may just be as helpful as it allows the teacher to see the presence of such states.


He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

santa100
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Re: Bowing to lay teachers

Postby santa100 » Mon Jan 30, 2012 4:22 pm

"and if pride... does spring up in the teacher it may just be as helpful as it allows the teacher to see the presence of such states."

While we certainly wish that to be the case, we need to consider the other possibilities. One's bowing should be for oneself, but if it could benefit others, that's even better. So imho, closely observe the teacher first..

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Goofaholix
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Re: Bowing to lay teachers

Postby Goofaholix » Mon Jan 30, 2012 6:18 pm


David2
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Re: Bowing to lay teachers

Postby David2 » Mon Jan 30, 2012 6:33 pm


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Goofaholix
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Re: Bowing to lay teachers

Postby Goofaholix » Mon Jan 30, 2012 6:49 pm


hermitwin
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Re: Bowing to lay teachers

Postby hermitwin » Mon Jan 30, 2012 6:51 pm

I would like to quote Godwin samararatne, a well known meditation teacher.
'Dont call me teacher, consider me a peer who is also learning the dhamma
together with you'

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pilgrim
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Re: Bowing to lay teachers

Postby pilgrim » Tue Jan 31, 2012 7:45 am

Does Goenka's students bow to him ?

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Ben
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Re: Bowing to lay teachers

Postby Ben » Tue Jan 31, 2012 8:02 am

“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

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pilgrim
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Re: Bowing to lay teachers

Postby pilgrim » Tue Jan 31, 2012 8:07 am


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Ben
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Re: Bowing to lay teachers

Postby Ben » Tue Jan 31, 2012 8:13 am

“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

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Goofaholix
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Re: Bowing to lay teachers

Postby Goofaholix » Tue Jan 31, 2012 6:23 pm


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Bhikkhu Pesala
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Re: Bowing to lay teachers

Postby Bhikkhu Pesala » Tue Jan 31, 2012 9:04 pm

Whether bowing to a monk, a lay Dhamma teacher, or a stūpa, why do you bow three times? It is because you are bowing to the Buddha, Dhamma, and Sangha (those Noble Ones who have realised nibbāna).

If you understand that your bowing is something done by you to show how much you respect the Triple Gem, and not how much you respect whoever is sitting in front of you, it becomes easy to bow, even to a monk or lay person who is weak in virtue, and far from the Noble Path.

It doesn't matter if the pile of bricks looking like a stūpa actually contains relics or not. Why should you allow that to affect your reverence for the Triple Gem? Nor does it matter if the person, photo, or statue you're bowing too is a Noble One or not. If your mind is purified by focusing on the qualities of the Triple Gem, that is what is important.
• • • • (Upasampadā: 24th June, 1979)

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retrofuturist
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Re: Bowing to lay teachers

Postby retrofuturist » Tue Jan 31, 2012 10:09 pm

Greetings bhante,

:goodpost:

Thanks, as always.

:candle: :candle: :candle:

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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cooran
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Re: Bowing to lay teachers

Postby cooran » Tue Jan 31, 2012 10:57 pm

---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---

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Ben
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Re: Bowing to lay teachers

Postby Ben » Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:28 pm

“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..


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