Four noble truths

robban
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Four noble truths

Postby robban » Fri Jun 07, 2013 7:00 am

i was wondering about the four noble truths and the noble eightfold path.
according to SGI these "truths" are provisional teachings.

from sokahumanism:

"
SGI Buddhism is based on Nichiren teachings of the Lotus Sutra, which revealed the final teaching of the Buddha, being the Dharma or the Law of Lotus. In his letter, Nichiren explained that the teaching of the Four Noble Truths is a specific or limited doctrine. In this perspective, the Four Noble Truths express only an elementary teaching, focused merely on only one aspect - among various aspects of life - that of sufferings. The Four Noble Truths do not encompass the basic Buddhist teaching of the Ten Worlds - which also have the World of Joy and Buddhahood. in his article Desiring Happiness Ikeda explains how the Four Noble Truths were taught by Shakyamuni Buddha specifically to his immediate disciples as an elementary and preparatory doctrine to direct them to self-mastery:


“The four noble truths and the eightfold path were directed chiefly to those disciples who had rejected secular life and were wholly engaged in Buddhist practice; they reflect the basic attitude and approach that underlie Shakyamuni's early teachings, which concentrated on predominantly negative views about life and the world so that he could awaken people first to life's harsh realities and then to the inexpressible spiritual experience of nirvana”.

"

Another interesting thing i've noticed is when i go to SGI meetings we talk about the importance of treating people well, the importance of right thoughts and so on.
isn't these things just what the eightfold path is about?
English is not my first language

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Dharma Bum
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Re: Four noble truths

Postby Dharma Bum » Fri Jun 07, 2013 4:18 pm

Bringing up that kind of stuff like the four noble truths and eight-fold path at SGI meetings, in my experience, will usually get the discussion shut down or re-directed pretty quickly. The stock answer you may have heard (especially from older members) is the metaphor of pre-Nichiren doctrines as "last years' calendar." Useful then, not so much now.

There is a powerful sectarian strain in SGI which drives that sort of reaction, and you can easily find one of its sources in Nichiren's writings, which were highly sectarian. Then there are the cultural elements of SG and its own origins and development, which also have sectarian tendencies.

But your observation is generally correct. The substance of the eight-fold path, and much of mainstream Buddhist doctrine, is largely consistent with SGI Buddhism, even if it's outwardly rejected. But it isn't needed. The concept of ichinen sanzen contains all of that, and more. To me it is the crown jewel of Nichiren Buddhism, and fertile ground for a lifetime of contemplation.
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Re: Four noble truths

Postby OregonBuddhist » Sat Jun 08, 2013 8:43 am

This thread may be of interest: viewtopic.php?f=59&t=10249

robban
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Re: Four noble truths

Postby robban » Sat Jun 08, 2013 10:31 am

English is not my first language

robban
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Re: Four noble truths

Postby robban » Sat Jun 08, 2013 2:14 pm

English is not my first language

illarraza
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Re: Four noble truths

Postby illarraza » Sat Jun 08, 2013 7:41 pm

The Eighfold Path for the cessation of suffering and its true implication in light of the highest teachings of the Buddha (the Lotus Sutra):

Right Views: Viewing the Lotus Sutra as the quintessence of the Buddha's teachings.

Right Thought: "By what shall I cause the masses of beings to be able to enter the Supreme Way And rapidly achieve Buddhahood."(Lotus Sutra Chapter 16).

Right Speech: Teaching others to chant Namu Myoho renge kyo.

Right Action: Action to spread the Lotus Sutra.

Right Living: Not begrudging one's life to spread the Lotus Sutra.

Right Endeavor: Endeavoring to attain Buddhahood and causing others to do the same.

Right Memory: Remembering that one's life is eternal and that we are the original disciples of the Eternal Buddha Shakyamuni of the Juryo Chapter of the Lotus Sutra

Right Meditation: Chanting Namu Myoho renge kyo.

Illarraza

robban
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Re: Four noble truths

Postby robban » Sun Jun 09, 2013 11:41 am

English is not my first language

robban
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Re: Four noble truths

Postby robban » Sun Jun 09, 2013 11:48 am

I always think of the eightfold path as a way to live ethical and correct.
A way to care for my fellow human beings.
A way to understand that "suffering" is a part of life.
A way to understand that the three poisons are why we suffer.

It's a beautiful thing, i think
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Re: Four noble truths

Postby Dharma Bum » Mon Jun 10, 2013 4:09 pm

^^^indeed.
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Re: Four noble truths

Postby jmlee369 » Wed Jun 12, 2013 3:54 am


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Re: Four noble truths

Postby rory » Wed Jun 12, 2013 5:44 am

Right Memory refers to us as the original disciples of the Eternal Buddha of the Juryo Chapter who are bodhisattvas not human beings, so yes our life span is endless; also the Lotus Sutra is accepted by all of Mahayana as the Buddha's final teaching so yes it has prime place as the final and ultimate teaching.
gassho
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Chih-I:
The Tai-ching states "the women in the realms of Mara, Sakra and Brahma all neither abandoned ( their old) bodies nor received (new) bodies. They all received buddhahood with their current bodies (genshin)" Thus these verses state that the dharma nature is like a great ocean. No right or wrong is preached (within it) Ordinary people and sages are equal, without superiority or inferiority
Paul, Groner "The Lotus Sutra in Japanese Culture"eds. Tanabe p. 58
https://www.tendai-usa.org/

robban
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Re: Four noble truths

Postby robban » Wed Jun 12, 2013 9:48 am

Where in the lotus sutra does it say that one should follow the 4 noble truths and the eightfold path?
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Re: Four noble truths

Postby DGA » Wed Jun 12, 2013 12:56 pm


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Seishin
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Re: Four noble truths

Postby Seishin » Wed Jun 12, 2013 2:12 pm


robban
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Re: Four noble truths

Postby robban » Wed Jun 12, 2013 4:34 pm

English is not my first language

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Seishin
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Re: Four noble truths

Postby Seishin » Wed Jun 12, 2013 5:57 pm

No. :smile:

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rory
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Re: Four noble truths

Postby rory » Wed Jun 12, 2013 11:15 pm

Seishin;
please point out to me where the Lotus Sutra isn't accepted as the final teaching of the Buddha (actually the last sutra is the Nirvana Sutra which is regarded as a colophon to the Lotus Sutra). This is accepted in Mahayana just like Maitreya is the Buddha of the future.
gassho
Rory
Namu Kanzeon Bosatsu
Chih-I:
The Tai-ching states "the women in the realms of Mara, Sakra and Brahma all neither abandoned ( their old) bodies nor received (new) bodies. They all received buddhahood with their current bodies (genshin)" Thus these verses state that the dharma nature is like a great ocean. No right or wrong is preached (within it) Ordinary people and sages are equal, without superiority or inferiority
Paul, Groner "The Lotus Sutra in Japanese Culture"eds. Tanabe p. 58
https://www.tendai-usa.org/

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Re: Four noble truths

Postby jmlee369 » Thu Jun 13, 2013 3:53 am


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rory
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Re: Four noble truths

Postby rory » Thu Jun 13, 2013 4:58 am

I said the Lotus Sutra is regarded as the last teaching, not the last sutra. The big important ideas in Mahayana - the Eternal Buddha, the buddhood of all beings come etc, come from this sutra. Vajrayana isn't Mahayana, it's it's own thing and actually doesn't study the Lotus Sutra. Here feel free to read Jacquie Stone's interview with Tricycle on the pre-eminence of the Lotus Sutra, she's the professor at Princeton not me
http://www.tricycle.com/special_section ... l?page=0,0

Here is another interesting piece from Tricycle by Porf. Jan Nattier about a [i]geshe[/i a]Tibetan Buddhist monk's encounter with the Lotus Sutra. And his dismay.
http://www.tricycle.com/special-section ... -awakening
"Those familiar with secondary literature about Buddhism are likely to have the impression that the Mahayana emerged as a liberalizing movement within the Buddhist community, one that made the practice of Buddhism, and the attainment of awakening, available to a wider group than had previously been the case. Seen in this light, the Mahayana is often perceived as pro-laity, pro-family, even pro-women, and thus as a form of Buddhism particularly well adapted to the presumably more egalitarian societies of the world today. But it is becoming increasingly clear to scholars that this vision of the character of Mahayana Buddhism has been shaped by a very atypical text, namely, the Lotus Sutra ."


FInally this is the Nichiren forum; Nichiren adhered very strongly to the Tendai school and the Tiantai school is all about the preminence of the Lotus Sutra, so arguing about Vajrayana or about the Avatamsaka Sutra doesn't advance your point. Tiantai and Nichiren also pointed out that the NIrvana Sutra just reinforces the teaching of the Lotus Sutra specifically the Eternal Buddha and the buddhahood of all things.
gassho
Rory
Namu Kanzeon Bosatsu
Chih-I:
The Tai-ching states "the women in the realms of Mara, Sakra and Brahma all neither abandoned ( their old) bodies nor received (new) bodies. They all received buddhahood with their current bodies (genshin)" Thus these verses state that the dharma nature is like a great ocean. No right or wrong is preached (within it) Ordinary people and sages are equal, without superiority or inferiority
Paul, Groner "The Lotus Sutra in Japanese Culture"eds. Tanabe p. 58
https://www.tendai-usa.org/

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Re: Four noble truths

Postby Seishin » Thu Jun 13, 2013 9:24 am



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