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Goenka retreat- aversion towards Chanting - Page 5 - Dhamma Wheel

Goenka retreat- aversion towards Chanting

On the cultivation of insight/wisdom
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vidar
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Re: Goenka retreat- aversion towards Chanting

Postby vidar » Sun Jan 29, 2012 1:00 pm

All the world is on fire, All the world is burning, All the world is ablaze, All the world is quaking. That which does not quake or blaze, That to which worldlings do not resort, Where there is no place for Mara:That is where my mind delights. (SN 5.7)

By degrees, little by little,
from moment to moment,
the wise purify themselves,
as a smith purifies silver.
—Dhammapada 239

Brizzy
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Re: Goenka retreat- aversion towards Chanting

Postby Brizzy » Sun Jan 29, 2012 1:37 pm

Ignorance is an intentional act.

David2
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Re: Goenka retreat- aversion towards Chanting

Postby David2 » Sun Jan 29, 2012 1:49 pm


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vidar
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Re: Goenka retreat- aversion towards Chanting

Postby vidar » Sun Jan 29, 2012 4:56 pm

All the world is on fire, All the world is burning, All the world is ablaze, All the world is quaking. That which does not quake or blaze, That to which worldlings do not resort, Where there is no place for Mara:That is where my mind delights. (SN 5.7)

By degrees, little by little,
from moment to moment,
the wise purify themselves,
as a smith purifies silver.
—Dhammapada 239

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Cittasanto
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Re: Goenka retreat- aversion towards Chanting

Postby Cittasanto » Sun Jan 29, 2012 5:13 pm



He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

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vidar
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Re: Goenka retreat- aversion towards Chanting

Postby vidar » Sun Jan 29, 2012 5:24 pm

All the world is on fire, All the world is burning, All the world is ablaze, All the world is quaking. That which does not quake or blaze, That to which worldlings do not resort, Where there is no place for Mara:That is where my mind delights. (SN 5.7)

By degrees, little by little,
from moment to moment,
the wise purify themselves,
as a smith purifies silver.
—Dhammapada 239

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Cittasanto
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Re: Goenka retreat- aversion towards Chanting

Postby Cittasanto » Sun Jan 29, 2012 6:47 pm



He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

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Goofaholix
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Re: Goenka retreat- aversion towards Chanting

Postby Goofaholix » Sun Jan 29, 2012 7:23 pm

At the root of the aversion to the chanting is the belief that "this should not be happening", if one didn't have this belief then the aversion wouldn't grow. For example a large flock of birds could be making just as much noise as the chanting but nobody would create as much aversion to that because everybody knows this is natural and beyond our control.

Goenka retreats are like the McDonalds of the retreat world, you can attend a retreat anywhere in the world and know exactly what you are going to get, unlike McDonalds though where you can take the pickles out you can't do this with a Goenka retreat. So if you can't cope with the chanting don't sign up for another retreat.

If you do sign up for a retreat then you know you are going to be meditating at times when the circumstances are totally quiet and other times when it's noisy, the mind settles much more easily when it's quiet but meditating when it's noisy builds strength of mind and an ability to meditate under a variety of circumstances. The ability to meditate under a variety of circumstances is a good skill to have, if you have to wait until conditions are perfect your meditation practise will be much poorer, if you have to learn this at home it will be harder than if you learned it on retreat.

I've done a lot of retreats in SE Asia and in many centres there are loudspeakers, music, dogs, roosters, spitting monks, and all manner of noise throughout the day, I can assure you Goenkas chanting is quite sublime by comparison.

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cooran
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Re: Goenka retreat- aversion towards Chanting

Postby cooran » Sun Jan 29, 2012 7:30 pm

:goodpost:

with metta
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---

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vidar
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Re: Goenka retreat- aversion towards Chanting

Postby vidar » Sun Jan 29, 2012 7:39 pm

All the world is on fire, All the world is burning, All the world is ablaze, All the world is quaking. That which does not quake or blaze, That to which worldlings do not resort, Where there is no place for Mara:That is where my mind delights. (SN 5.7)

By degrees, little by little,
from moment to moment,
the wise purify themselves,
as a smith purifies silver.
—Dhammapada 239

User avatar
vidar
Posts: 71
Joined: Fri Oct 23, 2009 1:38 pm

Re: Goenka retreat- aversion towards Chanting

Postby vidar » Sun Jan 29, 2012 7:55 pm

All the world is on fire, All the world is burning, All the world is ablaze, All the world is quaking. That which does not quake or blaze, That to which worldlings do not resort, Where there is no place for Mara:That is where my mind delights. (SN 5.7)

By degrees, little by little,
from moment to moment,
the wise purify themselves,
as a smith purifies silver.
—Dhammapada 239

User avatar
Cittasanto
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Location: Ellan Vannin
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Re: Goenka retreat- aversion towards Chanting

Postby Cittasanto » Sun Jan 29, 2012 8:23 pm



He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

Brizzy
Posts: 138
Joined: Sun Oct 30, 2011 7:58 am

Re: Goenka retreat- aversion towards Chanting

Postby Brizzy » Sun Jan 29, 2012 8:36 pm

Ignorance is an intentional act.

Brizzy
Posts: 138
Joined: Sun Oct 30, 2011 7:58 am

Re: Goenka retreat- aversion towards Chanting

Postby Brizzy » Sun Jan 29, 2012 8:38 pm

Ignorance is an intentional act.

Brizzy
Posts: 138
Joined: Sun Oct 30, 2011 7:58 am

Re: Goenka retreat- aversion towards Chanting

Postby Brizzy » Sun Jan 29, 2012 8:39 pm

Ignorance is an intentional act.

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Anagarika
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Re: Goenka retreat- aversion towards Chanting

Postby Anagarika » Sun Jan 29, 2012 9:07 pm

The whole idea of these lengthy Goenka retreats is interesting. I know that many have benefited greatly from completing the retreats, and others have had different experiences.

Having not attended one, I can't really have an opinion. A Thai monk with whom I was meditating did suggest that the Goenka path was not what he, the Bhikkhu, considered a proper practice of meditation as he saw it being taught within Theravada practice. I believe he saw these Goenka retreats as being akin to a marathon that people enjoyed completing for the sake of the experience. I know that he very much did not consider them to be part of the Dhamma practice that he was teaching.

Another of my teachers has commented that in Thailand, chanting is popular with the public, and that the public will attend the Wat for an evening of chanting, but that to get them to attend an evening of sitting meditation is much more difficult. Perhaps Goenka adds the Pali and Hindi chanting as a way to romanticize or energize the experience.

The hard part of practice is the meditation. It is also the beautiful part, the calming part, the insightful part.

I'd love to run a 26.4 K marathon just to say that I did it. But at the end of the day, if 20 minutes of walking meditation allows me to be just a little kinder, a little more compassionate that day, then the 20 minutes works for me.

Again, what works for others is always interesting to hear, and that's why I'm glad for this forum.

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Goofaholix
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Re: Goenka retreat- aversion towards Chanting

Postby Goofaholix » Sun Jan 29, 2012 9:19 pm


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Ben
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Re: Goenka retreat- aversion towards Chanting

Postby Ben » Sun Jan 29, 2012 9:21 pm

“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

Brizzy
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Re: Goenka retreat- aversion towards Chanting

Postby Brizzy » Sun Jan 29, 2012 9:28 pm

Ignorance is an intentional act.

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Mr Man
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Re: Goenka retreat- aversion towards Chanting

Postby Mr Man » Sun Jan 29, 2012 9:37 pm

There is a clip of Goenka chanting here (I haven't embeded the clip because I think it possibly shouldn't be on youtube):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpklk6FuGsM
Ben what is he chanting here?
He has a fairly traditional rythem at times but it is also rather idiosyncratic. I am actually rather a fan of chanting :) .


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